[SWSE] Questions about CL

[buzz]

Our group ran SWSE for the first time over the weekend and had a blast. We're going to keep playing for at least a few more sessions. Anyway...

The errata states that CL is basically like CR in in 3.5, i.e., a single opponent of CL X should be a challenge for a group of four PCs of level X. However, looking at the stats for the CL1 stormtrooper, that seems a bit off. CL1 troopers are lucky if they can survive a single hit from a PC with a decent blaster or lightsabre.

And if you use the "mixing CL" calculation on those same troopers, you really should be able to throw at least three of them at a 1st-level group with no problem. (Which I did, and the PCs dispatched them easily.)

Then there was the CL4 sith apprentice that got Move Object'ed off a catwalk in round two!

So... how are you using the CL system in your games? Is by-the-book working for you?

Next question: How is CL calculated? All the book had to say, iirc, is that you kinda eye-ball it. It seems like you start with a base of CL1, and add 1 for each heroic level, and add 0 for any nonheroic levels. Is that right?

 

[The_Gneech]

I recently started a thread on the WotC forums on exactly this topic, you may find it helpful:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1000734

-The Gneech

 

[ValhallaGH]

CL for PC races is +1 per 4 non-heroic levels (round down), +1 per heroic level. Plus miscellaneous special abilities unique to that individual or group.

One thing to keep in mind is that people have different definitions of what is a 'challenge'. The game designers figured out one, and that's the one that was used to determine CL. Most players and GMs have a different one.

Another is that skills in general, and the force in particular, become less useful as your opponents rise in level. That's because defenses increase twice as fast as skills do, making 20th level characters (base defenses of 30+) extremely resistant to skills and force powers (base bonus of +10 to +20).

Finally, force chucking folk off of catwalks is so absolutely Star Wars that it should be in the first three pages of the Star Wars Heroes Handbook.

 

[buzz]

Finally, force chucking folk off of catwalks is so absolutely Star Wars that it should be in the first three pages of the Star Wars Heroes Handbook.

Oh, absolutely! It was a great move on the player's part. I just kept thinking that the sith should have had some way to counter it.

 

[The_Gneech]

Oh, absolutely! It was a great move on the player's part. I just kept thinking that the sith should have had some way to counter it.

Well, the "rebuke" power exists pretty much specifically for this ... but if the Sith apprentice didn't learn that, he's got nobody to blame but himself!

Let's hope at least he fell into a bottomless chasm, so he can come back to bedevil the group later?

-The Gneech

 

[buzz]

Let's hope at least he fell into a bottomless chasm, so he can come back to bedevil the group later?

Absolutely!

 

[Donovan Morningfire]

CL for PC races is +1 per 4 non-heroic levels (round down), +1 per heroic level. Plus miscellaneous special abilities unique to that individual or group.

Not quite. CL = 1/3 Non-Heroic level, rounded down. I know a lot of people look at the stormtrooper and automatically say "he's 4th level and CL 1, so obviously..." except that the book does state (don't have my copy handy to look up the exact page) that it's 1/3rd.

And so far, there's no concrete formula for special abilities, so any CL effect those have is up to the individual GM.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Not quite. CL = 1/3 Non-Heroic level, rounded down. I know a lot of people look at the stormtrooper and automatically say "he's 4th level and CL 1, so obviously..." except that the book does state (don't have my copy handy to look up the exact page) that it's 1/3rd.

Like yourself, I was remembering the formula. I mis-remembered a 4 instead of a 3. But page 257 does agree with you, so I'll try not to be offended by the condescension.
Edit: It's page 247, not 257 (I mistyped).

And so far, there's no concrete formula for special abilities, so any CL effect those have is up to the individual GM.

There never is. Special abilities are too variable and unpredictable to do more than list common ones and their CL (or CR) adjustments.

 

[buzz]

But page 257 does agree with you...

p.257 is about gravity and visibility.

If there's a reference in the SWSE book on how CL is calculated, I haven't seen it. :\

 

[ValhallaGH]

p.257 is about gravity and visibility.

If there's a reference in the SWSE book on how CL is calculated, I haven't seen it. :\

Sorry, I mistyped. Page 247 is the page about CL. It's amazing how concise yet useful that index is.