[SWSE] Should Jedis get Persuasion as a class skill?

[Asmor]

So I'm statting up the first of 16 pregens for a one-shot adventure I'm making... a twi'lek jedi who's supposed to be good at deceiving people (i.e. jedi mind tricks).

Anyways, I give her the adept negotiator talent, which requires a persuasion check to use... and it's not a class skill!

Ignoring the fact that this practically makes the adept negotiator talent useless to a 1st level jedi, and only slightly more useful to higher level ones (since they're more likely to have targets who won't get +5 just for being higher level...), one of the roles it seems like jedis are trained in is that of a diplomat... They work for peace and the betterment of society, they try to win over people to their cause, etc.

Anyways, for the sake of the game I'm going to be giving her persuasion trained, but I think that not having it already is a bit of an oversight.

 

[Stalker0]

The major paradigm shift that people have to get used to in SAGA is that multi classing is no longer about picking your flavor, it really is just picking a set of mechanics to define your flavor.

The character you are describing is not a jedi. Its a jedi/noble.

 

[Rykion]

Not really an oversight at all. At level 3 the jedi can pick up the Force Persuasion talent that lets a jedi use her Use the Force check modifiers in place of the Persuasion skill and count as trained. Thus you can be a good jedi diplomat at level 3, which is still a Padawan ranked jedi.

Jedi already start with the best HP, BAB, and access to 7 talent trees rather than the 4 open to other classes. Once they have a darkside point they have 8 talent trees available. Skills are their only weakness, but they can get around that with certain force talents and by multi-classing. I wouldn't choose to make them more powerful by increasing their Class Skills list.

 

[Asmor]

The major paradigm shift that people have to get used to in SAGA is that multi classing is no longer about picking your flavor, it really is just picking a set of mechanics to define your flavor.

The character you are describing is not a jedi. Its a jedi/noble.

I totally agree with you on that point... However, the fact remains that a level 1 jedi can take adept negotiator at level 1, but can't really use it that well until at earliest level 3 (the next time they get a feat, and assuming they've taken at least one level of noble).

Either adept negotiator should have some prerequisites, should be changed to some other skill (use the force maybe?), be changed to a noble talent, or jedis should have persuasion as a class skill.

 

[Lorion]

@ Asmor
Just two minutes before your post, Rykion posted another way for your jedi to be a good diplomat... the Force Persuasion talent you can get at level 3.

Not really an oversight at all. At level 3 the jedi can pick up the Force Persuasion talent that lets a jedi use her Use the Force check modifiers in place of the Persuasion skill and count as trained. Thus you can be a good jedi diplomat at level 3, which is still a Padawan ranked jedi.

 

[Bagpuss]

To me it would make more Sense for Force Persuasion a pre-requisite for Adept Negotiator rather than the other way around.

"Force Persuasion or Persuasion Trained" as the requisite that way a Noble joining the Jedi Class could pick it up straight away but a straight Jedi would need to get Force Persuasion first.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

To me it would make more Sense for Force Persuasion a pre-requisite for Adept Negotiator rather than the other way around.

Eh, I could see it going either way really. Ultimately, the decision was probably made as a balancing factor.

 

[Rykion]

Eh, I could see it going either way really. Ultimately, the decision was probably made as a balancing factor.

That's what I was thinking. Adept Negotiator plus Force Persuasion plus Skill Focus Use the Force equals 10 + 1/2 lvl + CHA mod against Will def to take someone down the condition track a level. That can be very powerful against high Reflex def combat oriented characters. Not to mention that all your Persuasion and Use the Force checks will be at 10 + 1/2 lvl + CHA. By the RAW you have to take the less useful talent first, but it will pay off 2 levels later.

Edit: pointed something else out.

 

[Bagpuss]

It really doesn't make a huge difference in the order, since one you get the skill without the ability, and the other you get the ability without the skill, you still only have both at 3rd level. And the current way round with the ability first, there is a slight chance you could lower someone down the condition track at 1st level.

My way round while you could be a persuasive Jedi at 1st level you won't be moving anyone down the condition track until 3rd.

 

[Odhanan]

I see the Jedi class as not defining what a Jedi is, but what a person who spent most of his time (=level) training in the use of the Force gets.

The key element to understand Saga is to get that characters aren't meant to be single classed. Most people with more than a few unheroic levels in the Galaxy will be multiclassed to reflect who they are and what they can do rather than their "profession". Once you get that, you can create the characters you want pretty easily.