Symbols as offensive weapons

Simulacrum

First Post
Can the symbol (any) spell be cast upon the surface of a characters skin? Lets say the inside of the characters hand, so that when he opens it and shows it to people they get affected by it?
Is that possible? Nothing in the rules contradicts such a usage...please share what you think!
 
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Pressing an abjuration effect against another creature collapses the abjuration effect.

Symbols no longer fall under those general rules - but they do have special rules preventing them from being used offensively. A symbol brought into contact with a creature does not activate - the creature has to contact the symbol.

So oyu can put a Symbol on your shield that triggers when you are struck in melee - but you can't put a symbol on someone else to trigger when they do something. Anything they did would by definition be bringing the symbol to activation and not trigger.

-Frank
 

Simulacrum said:
Can the symbol (any) spell be cast upon the surface of a characters skin? Lets say the inside of the characters hand, so that when he opens it and shows it to people they get affected by it?
Is that possible? Nothing in the rules contradicts such a usage...please share what you think!

Sure, you can do it. If you have a deathwish:

srd said:
The symbol of death affects the closest creatures first, skipping creatures with too many hit points to affect.

Since the symbol is scribed on the creature, that creature would be the "closest" and would be the first to be affected by it.

So unless you're somehow immune to whatever symbol you've got, scribing a symbol on yourself is a bad idea.

It'd be neat to scribe the symbol on a person as a trap. Knock a guy out, scribe the symbol on the inside of his breastplate, put the armor back on, and set him free. Chances are he won't take off his armor until he's back "safe" with his pals--at which point the burst effect goes off and affects one or more creatures within 60' (starting with the target guy).

Ouch!

-z
 

Mhh from what I read in the rules the Symbol can be triggered on a distance up to 60" and its not an abjuration effect. Its either Necromancy or Enchantment.
You can choose to assign no trigger, so that everyone looking at it gets affected (from what I understand)
What does prevent you from using it like a weapon this way?

EDIT: you can choose that you (and anyone else you think off) are not affected by your own SYMBOL!
So thats no problem!
 
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What does prevent you from using it like a weapon this way?

The specific text on the Symbol spells that they can't be used as a weapon.

If the Symbol is brought to a point where it would trigger - it doesn't trigger.

-Frank
 

yeah I know the text, BUT you can use it passively aggressive. There is one thing in the text that makes me believe so. The "All creatures looking at it" part...so if a small army attacks you from one side, and you open your hand and show the symbol to them "you dont push it on them" as they approach it themselves and they trigger the rune.....or am I wrong with this?
 

from the 3.5 srd

Symbol of Death
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Clr 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.; see text
Effect: One symbol
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell allows you to scribe a potent rune of power upon a surface. When triggered, a symbol of death slays one or more creatures within 60 feet of the symbol (treat as a burst) whose combined total current hit points do not exceed 150. The symbol of death affects the closest creatures first, skipping creatures with too many hit points to affect. Once triggered, the symbol becomes active and glows, lasting for 10 minutes per caster level or until it has affected 150 hit points’ worth of creatures, whichever comes first. Any creature that enters the area while the symbol of death is active is subject to its effect, whether or not that creature was in the area when it was triggered. A creature need save against the symbol only once as long as it remains within the area, though if it leaves the area and returns while the symbol is still active, it must save again.
Until it is triggered, the symbol of death is inactive (though visible and legible at a distance of 60 feet). To be effective, a symbol of death must always be placed in plain sight and in a prominent location. Covering or hiding the rune renders the symbol of death ineffective, unless a creature removes the covering, in which case the symbol of death works normally.
As a default, a symbol of death is triggered whenever a creature does one or more of the following, as you select: looks at the rune; reads the rune; touches the rune; passes over the rune; or passes through a portal bearing the rune. Regardless of the trigger method or methods chosen, a creature more than 60 feet from a symbol of death can’t trigger it (even if it meets one or more of the triggering conditions, such as reading the rune). Once the spell is cast, a symbol of death’s triggering conditions cannot be changed.
In this case, “reading” the rune means any attempt to study it, identify it, or fathom its meaning. Throwing a cover over a symbol of death to render it inoperative triggers it if the symbol reacts to touch. You can’t use a symbol of death offensively; for instance, a touch-triggered symbol of death remains untriggered if an item bearing the symbol of death is used to touch a creature. Likewise, a symbol of death cannot be placed on a weapon and set to activate when the weapon strikes a foe.
You can also set special triggering limitations of your own. These can be as simple or elaborate as you desire. Special conditions for triggering a symbol of death can be based on a creature’s name, identity, or alignment, but otherwise must be based on observable actions or qualities. Intangibles such as level, class, Hit Dice, and hit points don’t qualify.
When scribing a symbol of death, you can specify a password or phrase that prevents a creature using it from triggering the effect. Anyone using the password remains immune to that particular rune’s effects so long as the creature remains within 60 feet of the rune. If the creature leaves the radius and returns later, it must use the password again.
You also can attune any number of creatures to the symbol of death, but doing this can extend the casting time. Attuning one or two creatures takes negligible time, and attuning a small group (as many as ten creatures) extends the casting time to 1 hour. Attuning a large group (as many as twenty-five creatures) takes 24 hours. Attuning larger groups takes proportionately longer. Any creature attuned to a symbol of death cannot trigger it and is immune to its effects, even if within its radius when triggered. You are automatically considered attuned to your own symbols of death, and thus always ignore the effects and cannot inadvertently trigger them.
Read magic allows you to identify a symbol of death with a DC 19 Spellcraft check. Of course, if the symbol of death is set to be triggered by reading it, this will trigger the symbol.
A symbol of death can be removed by a successful dispel magic targeted solely on the rune. An erase spell has no effect on a symbol of death. Destruction of the surface where a symbol of death is inscribed destroys the symbol but also triggers it.
Symbol of death can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent symbol of death that is disabled or that has affected its maximum number of hit points becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again as normal.
Note: Magic traps such as symbol of death are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find a symbol of death and Disable Device to thwart it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 33 for symbol of death.
Material Component: Mercury and phosphorus, plus powdered diamond and opal with a total value of at least 5,000 gp each.

So you can scribe it as set to go off when looked at. You are immune to your own symbols and can attune your party, familiar and pack animals as well if you want.
 

Simulacrum said:
yeah I know the text, BUT you can use it passively aggressive. There is one thing in the text that makes me believe so. The "All creatures looking at it" part...so if a small army attacks you from one side, and you open your hand and show the symbol to them "you dont push it on them" as they approach it themselves and they trigger the rune.....or am I wrong with this?
If and only if they were outside the area when you opened it - that would work.

That's not a directly aggressive use, however. You can just walk around hostile areas with symbols that are set to blow people other than yourself up. And since you can have them scribed for free by outsiders that you bind with Planar Binding - there's no especial reason why you wouldn't do that if that's what you wanted to do.

Once you are actually in combat, however, it is basically too late to reveal one.

-Frank
 

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