T1-4, ToEE - What the crap?!

Ry

Explorer
Hello; I picked up an old copy of T1-4, The temple of elemental evil, and I have to say, I'm flabbergasted at it. THis is a _very_ famous dungeon, but there's absolutely no development or hooks to get this thing off the ground! I mean, I can't figure out why the players would even hang out in Hommlet long enough to actually learn of the adventures. Also, there's all this contradictory info; the siege of the ToEE happened a decade ago, but now it's location is lost?

Now I don't want to bash it, and I certainly don't want to get into a debate about editions. I guess what I'm trying to say is: I feel like I'm trying to drive standard here, and I've only ever ridden a bicycle.

So on to a constructive thread: How have you actually used this baby in play? What do you use for hooks, and how do you connect the locales?
 

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Get the players to Hommlet; let them interact for awhile; then start to spring the "evil most foul" upon them. Any good guy worth his salt will take it from there...And if they dont, the ToEE is a dungeon with plenty of critters, gold and magic to be had...
 

ToEE has a very troubled history. It was first introduced to the world through the classic module of T1: The Village of Hommlet in 1979.

Hommlet was unusual: it was one of the very first campaign setting modules. Actual adventure hooks as such were mainly left up to the DM, but there were a wealth of sinister characters lurking in the pages of T1, enough to give the creative DM plenty to work with.

Unfortunately, like several other projects of Gary Gygax, he never got around to finishing it. (Q1 is the other big offender).

The "original" temple - of Gygax's Greyhawk campaign - was partly constructed by Random Dungeon techniques, and such had to be rewritten extensively for publication. As the eighties continued, Gygax's time was taken up with the running of TSR, the entertainment division (responsible for the D&D Cartoon), and fighting with the Blumes, rather than actually finishing the adventure module T2, which everyone had been waiting for.

Finally, Gygax was forced out of the company, but not before (I assume with Gygax's blessing), Michael Mentzer was assigned to finish the project with Gygax's notes. The Temple of Elemental Evil had a wealth of history associated with it from Gygax's campaign and his writing about it in Dragon... so it had to be great, didn't it?

Opinion is divided on the subject. :)

On the one hand, it's a dungeon crawl, and dungeon crawls have been a staple of D&D since the beginning. On the other, it's a dungeon crawl, and they've been around from the beginning. Isn't it time for something new?

There is also the fact that this is "old school" D&D, where adventure hooks were something that the DM was expected to provide...

I have played through T1-4, as part of a campaign, long ago. We didn't exactly use it as you might expect: our sole objective was to rescue someone held captive in it. The fact that we destroyed the place was simply a side-effect. :)

Cheers!
 

MerricB said:
There is also the fact that this is "old school" D&D, where adventure hooks were something that the DM was expected to provide...
Uh, no. :)

In old school D&D you didn't need adventure hooks. PCs were supposed to go kick in the door for no frickin reason at all. ;)

PS
 

Storminator said:
Uh, no. :)

In old school D&D you didn't need adventure hooks. PCs were supposed to go kick in the door for no frickin reason at all. ;)

PS

No, there was also the option of rail-roading into the module. :)

Cheers!
 

The village of Hommlet was interesting because it was one of the first fleshed out towns in a module. (Though I always prefered Orlane from Against the Cult of the Reptile God) That was the 'hook'. It was a town and you had to like find out how to get to the dungeon. Bandits, it is always bandits. Go get the bandits boy. Oh hey, check that out, there is a secret door here. Let's go scope the dungeon. Hey, who is this Lareth guy? (The last time I ran this module, some 16 odd years ago, the party ended up negotiating with Lareth. They would let him go if he left everything behind. They were reasonably sure they could take Lareth, but it would cost them dearly. Lareth was sure they could take him and his best bet was to get away with as much as he could. He settled for his personal equipment, and his skin.) The uber-module for the Temple of Elemental Evil was impressive in it's sheer scope.

Those were different days. They were days when many games ran like serials. Sure, you could have all sorts of RP, but it wasn't the module's job to provide hooks and reasons for RP.
 


"there's absolutely no development or hooks to get this thing off the ground!"

sigh, I guess those who have only played later editions need to be led by the nose (both dms and players)! Ok, tell your players that theres this funny looking old human sage smoking a pipe who tells them that this is their assignment... :eek:

"I mean, I can't figure out why the players would even hang out in Hommlet long enough to actually learn of the adventures."

Its on a caravan route to and from the wild coast and verbobonc. The PCs could be part of a caravan that stops here at the inn of the welcome wench. When they check into the inn, there about a half dozen npcs at the Inn (furnok, turuko, zert, spugnoir, elmo, etc.) who could spill the beans about a ruined moathouse with varying motives.

If a PC is a cleric of the Church of St. Cuthbert, he could be assigned to Hommlet or he could have a dream that intimates that he should travel to Hommlet and investigate 'resurgent evil' or 'the second rising of the temple'. A druid PC could have a similar assignment/dream set of options but he can deal with Jaroo.

A fighter or ranger might get an urgent summons from his uncle 'Black Jay', who wants his nephew to help 'set the region aright again'. Black Jay could provide logistical support but claim he is too old to take an active part.

Good or treasure-seeking PCs can hear of humanoids raiding the caravans and decide to go and stop such mischief.

In two minutes, Ive come up with a half-dozen or more scenarios with an easy 'hook' into hommlet or the moathouse.


"Also, there's all this contradictory info; the siege of the ToEE happened a decade ago, but now it's location is lost?"

How is this contradictory? It happened several years ago and every idiot in the village knows that the Temple is NEAR Nulb but since the average townie never entered the actual Temple, how would they know EXACTLY where the Temple is, except that its in the Gnarley Forest near Nulb. They'll suggest going to Nulb and asking one of the treacherous locals for the location.

If you need to be led by the nose, the path goes inn of the welcome wench to the moathouse, lareth's papers and interviews with burne and rufus lead to advice to go to Nulb, which leads to leads to the actual Temple if the PCs do any reasonable information gathering or pay up some bribes at one of the disreputable establishments in that town.

"Now I don't want to bash it, and I certainly don't want to get into a debate about editions. I guess what I'm trying to say is: I feel like I'm trying to drive standard here, and I've only ever ridden a bicycle."

It does seem like you are used to riding the elminster bicycle.


"So on to a constructive thread: How have you actually used this baby in play? What do you use for hooks, and how do you connect the locales?"

Sure, many times in different campaign worlds, with different alterations. It depends on the party's motivation. Think. If a PC is a priest of St. Cuthbert, then use the Temple or divinations as an information source. If a PC is a druid, use Jaroo the same way. I mentioned relating to Black Jay. I mentioned teaming up with one of the half-dozen npcs in the Inn. One neat twist is from the TOEE videogame -- have Lareth SURRENDER if the PCs are kicking ass in the moathouse and offer to lead them to the Ruined Tower where a secret entrance to the dungeons and riches below the temple await -- then have Lareth be a totally faithful party member for a while until he leads them into the brigand trap or into the werewolf trap below the ruined tower!! If a PC is hanging out in Nulb and is a decent thief or of neutral alignment, have one of the four elemental temples try to recruit the party member and use them in secret missions against rival temples, since no one will be able to connect the dots between an outsider and their source. There are dozens more 'hooks' in each phase of the module that are equally obvious depending on the characteristics of your party.
 


MerricB said:
Hommlet was unusual: it was one of the very first campaign setting modules. Actual adventure hooks as such were mainly left up to the DM, but there were a wealth of sinister characters lurking in the pages of T1, enough to give the creative DM plenty to work with.

Actually, rycanada, if you're only reading T1 from the T1-4 compilation, you're missing some text from the original versions (both the mono and the light-green covers). I know that both of those editions provided a fair amount of intro/getting started ideas, so it's possible that those were excised from the T1-4 version, along with various other sections of text.

The "original" temple - of Gygax's Greyhawk campaign - was partly constructed by Random Dungeon techniques, and such had to be rewritten extensively for publication. As the eighties continued, Gygax's time was taken up with the running of TSR, the entertainment division (responsible for the D&D Cartoon), and fighting with the Blumes, rather than actually finishing the adventure module T2, which everyone had been waiting for.

Well, actually we'd all been waiting for Castle Greyhawk, but then we got around to waiting for T2 as well ;P

Finally, Gygax was forced out of the company, but not before (I assume with Gygax's blessing), Michael Mentzer was assigned to finish the project with Gygax's notes.

That would be Frank Mentzer, of course :D

I've never been terribly impressed with T1-4: it never lived up to the rich potential of T1, for me. Frank did an fine job of filling out Gary's outlines, etc., but his style and Gary's didn't mesh really well for me. If you compare T1-4 to any of EGG's modules, or to any of Frank's, I think that their joint effort fares worse than either author's solo work.
 

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