Table rules and conventions

[DarrenGMiller]

I'm curious, wolf70, was this because of the "Table Rules", or in spite of them?

The only time I've seen games degenerate because of table rules is when the rules are designed to facilitate a gamestyle that not everyone likes. (usually by an overzealous DM) There's a big difference between a "You must always talk in character" rule and a "no talking when its not your turn" rule. One tries to force a gamestyle, the other just makes tha game run smoother.

I'm curious of the nature of the rules you came up with and why it affected your group the way it did.

Trev

I don't think that the game degenerated BECAUSE of the table rules. I am just saying that if everyone uses common sense and common courtesy, then table rules are not even necessary. My old group did not abide by those things. Players often argued vehemently with each other about small things in game (a failed alchemy check, the usefulness of a magic item, etc.). One game completely degenerated due to bickering between two players. Several players were removed from the group at various points in time.

Our rules did not enforce a gaming style at all. They involved attendance, noise and distractions (ex. Do not talk or text message on the cell phone at the gaming table. Step away from the table if you must make or receive a call or message.), cheating, and standard rules of order. We also had to have a section on removal of players after that became an issue. They looked fairly similar to table rules that I have seen from Monte Cook in Dungeoncraft or that others have posted here at ENWORLD, including those in this thread. The group just had players who refused to "play nice." They took the game more seriously than work or relationships on a regular basis. It was very unpleasant.

My new group is laid back and even-tempered. Nobody really takes offense at anything or ridicules anyone or is rude or inconsiderate. They are just nice people. Any table rules we wrote would just legislate what we already do out of common courtesy.

DM

 

[kadath]

Just a quick note regarding the metagaming aspect ("Let's see your spell list so we can come up with a plan"). I've come to the conclusion that it's not as destructive as many of us used to think. If you look at it as a group of players playing the party rather than Bob playing Dogface the Barbarian, it goes down easier.

That doesn't mean that Bob can help play Steve's character, but it does mean that the players can collaborate to play the party together. I think, for many players, it makes the game more fun to directly collaborate in this way.

 

[buzz]

I don't really have a problem with a certain amount of metagaming. E.g., I see nothing wrong with a player optimizing how much BAB to sacrifice when Power Attacking, as that's essentially what the character is doing, i.e., using their acquired fighting skills competently. Not allowing this is shortchanging the PC; the feat slot they sacrificed becomes meaningless.

You just need to keep an eye on when the metagaming starts to harm gameplay ("character by committee" discussions that make every round take 30 minutes), or when it produces incongruous results (the character who can easily defeat monsters they've never heard of becasue the player knows the MM back-to-front).

 

[kadath]

I agree with you, buzz, but I think I'd say 'don't waste time' and specify that that includes excessive metagaming, for the reasons that mentioned. Of course, this rule would also include abnormal indecisiveness, demands that rules be looked up right now, and spending 45 minutes trying to retrieve a d4 from the heating duct.

 

[buzz]

I agree with you, buzz, but I think I'd say 'don't waste time'...

Honestly, that's what every rule in my list execept 0 pretty much says. My group likes to kibitz, yes they do...

 

[Shadowslayer]

Just a quick note regarding the metagaming aspect ("Let's see your spell list so we can come up with a plan"). I've come to the conclusion that it's not as destructive as many of us used to think. If you look at it as a group of players playing the party rather than Bob playing Dogface the Barbarian, it goes down easier.

Wholeheartedly agreed...as long as its not happening during combat. That just makes it drag and drag. But yeah, coming up with battle plans is part of the teamwork aspect and should be encouraged IMO. (its a bonus if you can do it in character...but a pain in the ass if its mandated that you must do it in character)

 

[wsclark]

Yep, have some that I call House House Rules, as opposed to my Game House Rules. You can find them on my campaign wiki: Adventures In Kalamar!

 

[xnosipjpqmhd]

Iron Regime, what other rules do you have in place like this.

My group pretty much abides by Jeffh's rules above, though again, most do not have to be spelled out specifically to every player. I've known half my group for 20 years, and the other half catch on quick.

The only problems that have come up have been players bringing kids and not watching them, personality clashes with players' wives... that sort of thing. No disrespect intended, but if it weren't for our families, things would go swimmingly.

ironregime

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Most of ours are unspoken, and follow the basics above.

The biggest thing we have that is worth sharing is the Punny Bank.

We have a jar, and if anyone pops off with a bad joke, or a movie quote they have to pay in. Dime to dollar depending on severety. Bill Cosby, Princess Bride, Army of Darkness and Monty Python have cause much money to flow to the Punny Bank over the years.

We then use the money for stuff for the group (battlemats, or group dice or whatnot) then it goes for pizza or other consumables.

 

[jeffh]

Most of ours are unspoken, and follow the basics above.

The biggest thing we have that is worth sharing is the Punny Bank.

We have a jar, and if anyone pops off with a bad joke, or a movie quote they have to pay in. Dime to dollar depending on severety. Bill Cosby, Princess Bride, Army of Darkness and Monty Python have cause much money to flow to the Punny Bank over the years.

We then use the money for stuff for the group (battlemats, or group dice or whatnot) then it goes for pizza or other consumables.

Perhaps I should implement something like that. Mostly we just hit people with a stuffed platypus for stuff like that.