Tabletopocalypse Now - GMS' thoughts about the decline in the hobby

[billd91]

OK now I'm plain confused. Pink Floyd and the Stones were Indie before the term/ genre was invented.

There's a difference between being 'indie' and being a band without a record contract yet, an undiscovered/undeveloped band. When your debut album is on a major label like Columbia/EMI for the Floyd and Decca for the Stones, you're really not in indie territory.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Smells like a teen spirit argument out of a black hole sun to me, but I don't want to get into the even flow with 10,000 (or more) maniacs! Even if you put my buddy Alice in chains and show me lots of Barenaked Ladies, it won't cause any more than little earthquakes in my life. My r.e.m. sleep will be just fine.

Certainly, there is a detectible art of noise coming from all genres, and even a blind melon is ripe twice a day. I'd go on, but I have faith no more in my ability to really start up with you gorillaz.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

^You haven't played chess much, have you? There are many varieties of chess, and every one of those has particular playing styles. There are boatloads of chess books, chock full of alternate rules and advice, check amazon or your local hobby shop.

Actually ive been playing chess the same way for 25 years. But if the rules for the game have changed every year, and i missed one book of changes each yeart for all the years ive played. Thats 25 book of improved rules on the game that people now call chess, that ive never read or even know about.


And if these books of changes have been printed every year for over a thousand years. thats alot of books, and alot of changes, so im looking for those books BotE was reffering too.

 

[prosfilaes]

Actually ive been playing chess the same way for 25 years. But if the rules for the game have changed every year,

Again, I feel you're changing the rules. A game that's supposedly gone unchanged for 1000 years, and now you want changing every year, a claim that's clearly unsupportable for D&D. In any case, United States Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess is now up to the fifth edition. Or you could play by the FIDE Handbook which is a different set of rules--which include rules against competing when high. Or we could have ICCF Playing Rules - ICCF - The International Correspondence Chess Federation which are valid from 1/1/2009. (And if a whole new real-time subgame to chess involving the hitting of a clock is not new rules, then there's only once or twice D&D has had new rules.)

 

[Elric]

The Designer Monologues » Blog Archive » Tabletopocalypse Now

Gareth raises some good points but despite the decline in sales, I feel that gaming as a hobby remains fairly strong.

I haven't had time to read this thread, but does seeing a rating of Dungeons and Dragons as tied with Pathfinder for sales strike anyone else as implausible? I'd be shocked if Dungeons and Dragons didn't have much higher sales than any other game over any one-year period.

Now, it's possible that this was a low-release quarter for D&D and a super-huge quarter for Pathfinder, but I doubt it. Given that, I'm not sure how much I trust these ratings. Maybe Dresden Files is fifth because the survey is incomplete?

 

[prosfilaes]

I haven't had time to read this thread, but does seeing a rating of Dungeons and Dragons as tied with Pathfinder for sales strike anyone else as implausible? I'd be shocked if Dungeons and Dragons didn't have much higher sales than any other game over any one-year period.

So why don't you read the thread? The reason statistics was invented was because our guts frequently produce bad answers, and I think the evidence introduced in the thread makes it clear that at the least, Pathfinder is a serious contender.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

Again, I feel you're changing the rules. A game that's supposedly gone unchanged for 1000 years, and now you want changing every year, a claim that's clearly unsupportable for D&D. In any case, United States Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess is now up to the fifth edition. Or you could play by the FIDE Handbook which is a different set of rules--which include rules against competing when high. Or we could have ICCF Playing Rules - ICCF - The International Correspondence Chess Federation which are valid from 1/1/2009. (And if a whole new real-time subgame to chess involving the hitting of a clock is not new rules, then there's only once or twice D&D has had new rules.)

Begining of the End is the one who claimed chess was an example of a game thats been around over a thousand years, is printed in books and changes each and every year.


I just wanted to know where to get all these books, so i could read about the specific changes that were made each year.

 

[Maggan]

I just wanted to know where to get all these books, so i could read about the specific changes that were made each year.

I'd try Amazon, or Barnes&Noble. Maybe there are bookshops close to where you live, they might have books on chess.

Also, this site seems to have a wide range of books on chess:

Chess Books | Wholesale Chess Book Library

It seems a bit expensive to buy all those books, though, so I'd settle for a few books on chess history to start with. I'll see if I can use Google to locate a few recommendations for you.

/M

 

[Hussar]

In my mind, the entire problem with GMS's idea is that we have no idea how much the 5th place guy sold any other quarter. I'm not going to bother looking up the actual number (I'm just too lazy) but let's say that 5th place sold 5000 units. Ok, now, D&D traditionally takes up about 80% of the market. Let's split it evenly between Pathfinder and 4e, cos, AFAIC, it's still D&D.

So, 80% to the top two, with the remaining 20% for everyone else. Let's make some really convenient assumptions and split that evenly - the remaining three on the top 5 list and an even share for everyone else. So, that puts 5% with 5000 units. That makes 80000 units for the top two.

Is that really bad for a quarter for RPG products? Doesn't sound too bad to me. 40k a piece is not a bad quarter at all.

 

[JohnRTroy]

In my mind, the entire problem with GMS's idea is that we have no idea how much the 5th place guy sold any other quarter. I'm not going to bother looking up the actual number (I'm just too lazy) but let's say that 5th place sold 5000 units. Ok, now, D&D traditionally takes up about 80% of the market. Let's split it evenly between Pathfinder and 4e, cos, AFAIC, it's still D&D.

Actually, Fred Hicks is very open about his sales, you can read various entries on his blog.

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