D&D 4E Tactical Points: A Unified System to Fix 4e Powers

As the others have said - very interesting. I like the concept, it just needs some serious attention to testing.

I think Stalker0's point about the low-level issues is very relevant. I think a not unreasonable way to look at it is to have it allow comparable amounts of power use that the old system did, over an average workday (say a four-encounter day).

Thus, a level 1 character in this setup has one encounter and one daily power. (Leaving aside race powers for now, that'd probably need some tweaking central to the races proper, since some do and some don't have encounter powers.) If we average out the 5TP for his daily over four encounters, and figure that he uses his encounter attack power three out of four times (the other being either a fight where it never comes up, or a skill challenge where it doesn't apply), then he's burning an average of 2.75 TP per encounter. Yet your math only gives him 2. He'll notice that difference, I think.

A level 5 character who uses both of his encounter attack powers in three out of four encounters, and both dailies in the day, is using an average of 5.5 TP per encounter that day - on attack powers. Let's say that his level 2 utility power is either a daily which he uses with 80% probability in that day, or an encounter power which he uses with 50% probability in each encounter... either way that's an extra one TP per encounter, bringing his average usage to 6.5. Yet you've only given him four.

Ah - but here's an interesting thought. Rather than have them reset to (2 + 1/2lvl) per short rest, have them start at zero after an extended rest and increment by (2 + 1/2lvl) at the start of each encounter. If you want to use your daily during the first encounter, it may mean you have to overexert. But if you are slightly conservative during the first encounter, then when you get to your second encounter, you'll have racked up enough points to use it without worrying too much. (Keep fractions in the increment... a level 1 character gets 2.5 per encounter, the half-point being useful only to add to another half-point at the start of the second encounter.)

What's that I hear? A mechanism to encourage longer workdays? Trumpets in the distance? A tactical conundrum between powers, which are getting easier to use, and hit points, which are going down, over the course of a day? Hallelujah!

Plus, the list of when you pick up encounter and daily attacks is specific. Thus your broad rule "2 at Heroic, etc" can be scaled more finely.

Try this:
- Level 1 encounter attack => 1TP cost
- Level 1 daily attack => 4TP cost
- Level 2 utility (encounter) => 1TP cost
- Level 2 utility (daily) => 4TP cost
- Level 3 encounter attack => 1TP cost
- Level 5 daily attack => 5TP cost
- Level 6 utility (encounter) => 2TP cost
- Level 6 utility (daily) => 5TP cost
- Level 7 encounter attack => 2TP cost
... and so forth. The conversion table is only needed, of course, when first doing the changeover, or when buying new powers; you label the powers with their TP costs right on the card / listing.

As for the +2 per successive usage, make that the "recovery cost" for the power (card). All powers (except at-wills) are expended when used. To reuse one, you need to pay the recovery cost of 2TP as well as the use cost. The encounter cards recover for free upon a short rest, the dailies don't. For a clean break, in fact, label the encounter powers as "Recover" or "Recover Short" or something like that.

As for healing surges, with this version, if you want to include surges try this: if you're overextended at the end of the encounter, then you (? may? must? ) spend healing surges, gaining 2TP and nothing else for each one spent, until you are at 0 or 1 TP. After this you regain your TP increment as usual.

I would also rule that as an Aid Another action you can transfer 1TP to another PC. Might even make this a minor action unlike most Aid actions. (Or to prevent confusion the "Tactical Assist" action is a minor which transfers 1TP.)

I would also be tempted to actually just integrate Action Points and daily magic item usages into the same scheme... make it so that the only currency which runs down over a day is Healing Surges, everything else actually slowly ramps up (on average).

Neat!
 

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I would also be tempted to actually just integrate Action Points and daily magic item usages into the same scheme... make it so that the only currency which runs down over a day is Healing Surges, everything else actually slowly ramps up (on average).
Neat!

Ah ... kind of like you gain 1 tactical point every encounter (in addition to whatever else is above) and everyone has an encounter power like "burst of action" and define its effects as per spending an action point.
 

To respond to a few of the points made above:

1. Fundamentally, my main goal with this system was to replace all the "hard caps" with "soft caps." One of the complaints I see about 4e combat is that you can't even try the same power more than once - that the system says "you can't do that." This gets rid of that by making it so you can do the same power more than once, it just costs more. The "ramp up" is preserved to avoid spamming of the same power. Essentially my system is an intermediate between the extremes of a power being used over and over again for no additional cost (promotes spamming of most powerful powers and optimizing for one specific power) and no ability to even try the same power more than once (restricts player actions too much). However, Eric Finley's suggestion of the 2 TP for "recovery" seems to be a good idea that makes bookkeeping a little easier.

2. Yes, it's true that people will need to get bonus TP in order to keep up with the normal power progression, but that's intentional. The bonus TP are supposed to be "gettable" a significant fraction of the time. Combat advantage isn't that hard to get, if you can get yourself in the right position out of harm's way you can use both your move and minor actions for channel mana twice per round, the combat prayer doesn't even require doing anything special in combat in order to get, and if you have a leader or two to pump healing then you can easily afford the hit point loss from the primal energy. However you are correct it's probably a better idea to just make these innate abilities rather than charge a feat for them. (In fact, when I wrote the thing I was a little worried that some of the bonuses are too easy to get.)

3. I'm skeptical of systems where short rests are not idempotent (idempotent means that doing it twice or more in a row is the same as doing it once), because you can exploit the system by doing multiple short rests in a row. For example Neubert's system where you recover only some of your TP after each short rest - a party could just take several short rests until they recover all their TP. Of course there are ways to prevent this (e.g., don't let players rest more than once between encounters. have monsters ambush them if they try to rest too much) but then you could end up in an "arms race" with the players trying to counter those tactics (e.g. seek out weak encounters on purpose, go to an out of the way place to hide an then rest). Unless you want this kind of dynamic it may not be a good idea.

4. The comments about healing surges make sense. It might be a good idea to remove tha ability to burn healing surges from the system. Probably it would be a good idea to, rather than spend healing surges or action point, just introduce a new per-day resource that can be spent for bonus TP.

5. Don't forget that overextending isn't that hard to do. A 1st level character with +4 in his primary stat and a trained skill has +9 to that skill, so he can make a DC 14 check (to go down to -1 TP) 80 percent of the time.

6. @Stalker0: The fighter can't get "free powers all day" because he can only use each power "for free" once per encounter. The first time he uses a level 1 encounter power he can pay all the cost with bonus TP, but after that he has to pay the "ramp up" cost.

7. @DanmarLOK: I don't understand what you're talking about with regards to if utilities "count as what they are." You pay TP for them based on what they are. However, your maximum TP is not affected by what powers you choose - it's just affected by your level.
 


3. I'm skeptical of systems where short rests are not idempotent (idempotent means that doing it twice or more in a row is the same as doing it once), because you can exploit the system by doing multiple short rests in a row.
Not actually sure what this means, but if you're saying you dislike systems where there's additional benefit from taking more than one rest in a row, I agree whole-heartedly!

Of course, the simplest rule is "you can't take more than one rest between two encounters; 'rest' (short or extended) being effectively redefined as 'the space between encounters', regardless of actual time spent". :)
 

One thing I've noticed when I've tried to use healing surges as "currency" is that this really benefits some classes/players a lot more than others. Defenders and front line troops really burn through their surges while those that use range are much less likely to use surges (barring dm fiat in directing attacks specifically at them and ignoring the defenders) and thus anything that boosts power based on spent surges really boosts some more than others.

This may not be a factor with some or even most, just wanted to throw that out there as a possible consideration.
 

It's not DM fiat to direct attacks at the squishies. Imagine a group of Players were controlling your monsters. Would they all go: "he looks like he doesn't do much damage, and is very hard to kill, let's glomp him" or would they go "Ooh, tasty tasty striker, die die die"
 


I think the various feat methods of generating extra TP is neat, though I don't think its balanced. The divine one cuts my TP cost in half (as a cleric for example I can always choose all wisdom powers for example). The martial one, well me and a buddy can get free powers all day long with flanking. Meanwhile the arcane guy opens himself up to big pain.

Not only that, but the martial one royally screws rogues, who have to give up their primary method of dealing damage in order to use their abilities, while all the other martial classes merely take a minor hit to accuracy.


Level 1:
1 encounter, 1 daily.

TP: 2

So... I need a DC 22 check to use my daily. I'm basically forced to take either athletics or acrobatics as one of my skills, and even if I put my all into being good at it (+15), I've still got a 35% chance of failing.

In other words, taking the feat is mandatory, and rogues are totally screwed.

Level 2:
1 encounter, 1 daily, 1 utility

TP: 3

That check gets a little lower (down to 19), and the mod gets higher (up to 16). However now I've got yet another power that I have to pay for somehow, and it may well be a daily. Wow, I sure hope I spent all my feats on extra healing surges, skill boosts and that TP generation feat, just to use my powers.

Level 10:
TP: 7
3 encounters, 3 dailies, 3 utilities

Twice as many TP, 3 times as many powers. To use 3 encounter powers and a daily (which is not unreasonable), takes me 11 points and I've only got 7 to spend. And if I have only encounter utility powers, then that's another 6 on top of that. If I gain another level, suddenly I need 24 points.


Level 30:
TP: 17
4 encounters, 4 dailies, 4 utilities, PLUS your epic destiny powers.

Takes you 25 points to spend each encounter plus a daily.
At this point the feat tax is not quite so heavy, but it's still a tax: you effectively have to spend it in order to have the same amount of fun that you used to have.

The DC for actually spending a normal encounters worth of powers is 34, while your skill is around about the same. So you can actually spend a normal encounter worth of powers, plus some extra. But you've pumped a skill to the max to do it when all you wanted to do was melt some face. And heaven help you if you have a class with a prime stat that doesn't improve the skill selected for you, or wanted to use an unusual distribution.

To put it mildly: I don't think you've actually done the maths (except maybe at level 30). I don't think you've put any thought into how unfun not being able to use your powers is. I don't think you've actually played most classes in the game.

Finally, I don't think your final design satisfies any of your design criteria at any level:

1. While it does remove the hard cap, the soft cap you impose is more restrictive, and rapidly hits hard limits: it's a 'fake' soft cap. Realistically it's a lower hard cap than the original.

2. The power sources don't actually play in a different way. They all have a pile of tokens, and they all run out of tokens before they can use most of their powers, except for the fighter, who just stands around flanking all day and making more tokens.

3. They don't encourage the use of stunts. If anything, they discourage them. You've effectively said "use the stunt rules from the book, but whenever you use a stunt, cross off the use of two encounter powers". Currently stunts can be used whenever you don't wish to use up a power, or when your powers are not applicable. In your version a stunt has a higher cost than using an encounter power, so they are only ever going to be used when there is no other choice.

So - more complex, less fun.
 

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