Tactical Quotient (TQ) for monsters

Just a comment here that animal cunning should be based on their Wis, not their Int. Int is for doing math, comprehending text, using speech, and remembering who won the Battle of Emridy Meadows.

As such, I recommend making animals more or less "combat savvy" based on their Wis.

-The Gneech :cool:
 

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I play monsters equal to there intelligence. A creature with low int is played like one. If that means charging the closest opponent and attacking till its dead then moving on, so be it. The hobgoblin soldiers are going to be played like soldiers. Unless there are specific tactics designed into creatures, like the mob tactics for kobolds, i am going to play them to the best of there abilities, not mine.
 


shilsen said:
I'd agree with you if experience hadn't taught me that "perfectly intelligent human beings" is an oxymoron.
Being that 'perfectly x' is frequently associated with sandwiches that fall on the floor, I'm okay with it.
 

I don't think the Intelligence score has anything to do with it. Is a PC Fighter with an Int of 8 any LESS capable on the battlefield than a Rogue with an Int of 14?

D&D Intelligence really measures book learning and cognitive reasoning, something that battlefield tactics COULD be measured by, but not necessarily. Yes, maybe a Wizard would be a better commanding general than the brutish Barbarian with 8 Int, based on an understanding of logistics, historical contexts, and any number of minute factors that go into planning a battle.

But that 8 Int Barbarian should be a hurricane on the battlefield! Not because he's "smart", but because he has A) Training, B) Perception, C) Experience.

In the US Army, General Infantry is one of the easiest jobs to qualify for (not THE easiest, mind you). Anyone scoring an above-average score on the aptitude test is usually offered a "better" position. Are you telling me that a signals analyst has better combat tactics than an Infantryman?

No. An ogre might lack strong tactics, not because he's dumb, but because he's relied on his brute strength to dominate inferior foes. Kobolds use more tactics, not because they're smart, but because they're so weak that their very survival demands planning and team work, which has been developed and passed down through tribal history.
 

Novem5er said:
I don't think the Intelligence score has anything to do with it. Is a PC Fighter with an Int of 8 any LESS capable on the battlefield than a Rogue with an Int of 14?

D&D Intelligence really measures book learning and cognitive reasoning, something that battlefield tactics COULD be measured by, but not necessarily. Yes, maybe a Wizard would be a better commanding general than the brutish Barbarian with 8 Int, based on an understanding of logistics, historical contexts, and any number of minute factors that go into planning a battle.

But that 8 Int Barbarian should be a hurricane on the battlefield! Not because he's "smart", but because he has A) Training, B) Perception, C) Experience.

In the US Army, General Infantry is one of the easiest jobs to qualify for (not THE easiest, mind you). Anyone scoring an above-average score on the aptitude test is usually offered a "better" position. Are you telling me that a signals analyst has better combat tactics than an Infantryman?

No. An ogre might lack strong tactics, not because he's dumb, but because he's relied on his brute strength to dominate inferior foes. Kobolds use more tactics, not because they're smart, but because they're so weak that their very survival demands planning and team work, which has been developed and passed down through tribal history.

Exactly. A pack of wolves should have much better combat tactics than a bunch of farmers, even though the farmers have a higher Int score. And a barbarian with Int 8 who's been through a hundred battles should have better tactics, at least on the individual level, than a wizard with Int 22 who's never been in so much as a bar brawl. The wizard may be better at devising clever new ideas to deal with an unexpected situation, but the barbarian already knows all the tricks that the wizard has to figure out as he goes.

Now, pit the barbarian against an Int 22 war-wizard who has also been through a hundred battles, and the wizard will utterly out-think and outmaneuver him. But experience counts for a lot.
 

Novem5er said:
I don't think the Intelligence score has anything to do with it. Is a PC Fighter with an Int of 8 any LESS capable on the battlefield than a Rogue with an Int of 14?

Depends on the tactical ability of the player.

The difficult question is, "Should a dumb fighter be less capable than a smart rogue in game terms to the extent that intelligence effects the ability to use complex tactics?"

D&D Intelligence really measures book learning and cognitive reasoning, something that battlefield tactics COULD be measured by, but not necessarily.

Yes, but like all the attributes, intelligence measures a variaty of related but not necessarily identical things. People who are 'strong' can have different dead lifts and punching power because 'power' isn't quite the same thing as 'strength'. But sense D&D simplifies things by having only one score for strength, all game people of equal strength have equal punching power (barring feats and the like).

You have the same problem with intelligence. Actually though, you have less of a problem with intelligence than before because with the intelligence based skill system its easier to conceptually separate mental apptitude from education.

Yes, maybe a Wizard would be a better commanding general than the brutish Barbarian with 8 Int, based on an understanding of logistics, historical contexts, and any number of minute factors that go into planning a battle.

Perhaps. This is assuming that things like logistics, knowledge (Strategy & Warfare), and tactics shouldn't in fact be skills with the low Int Barbarian excells at to a greater degree than the Wizard by virtue of greater practice and experience. In fact, 'Tactics' is a skill in my system, with specific active abilities. It's not available as a class skill to either Barbarians or Wizards, though. Or rogues for that matter.

Sometimes being fast, strong, and tough is more than enough to win the fight. There is such a thing as 'having smart hands'.

In the US Army, General Infantry is one of the easiest jobs to qualify for (not THE easiest, mind you). Anyone scoring an above-average score on the aptitude test is usually offered a "better" position. Are you telling me that a signals analyst has better combat tactics than an Infantryman?

I think you might be surprised at the quality of modern volunteer infantry. Most people who are in the infantry now are thier because they want to be. The combat arms tend to be highly educated, highly motivated individuals, and the people who are thier because they need the money or want to change thier socio-economic status tend to go after lower risk mos.

In any event, I know that during the battle of the bulge, American combat engineers proved to be extremely tough units when thrown into an infantry role.
 

Celebrim said:
I think you might be surprised at the quality of modern volunteer infantry. Most people who are in the infantry now are thier because they want to be. The combat arms tend to be highly educated, highly motivated individuals, and the people who are thier because they need the money or want to change thier socio-economic status tend to go after lower risk mos.

In any event, I know that during the battle of the bulge, American combat engineers proved to be extremely tough units when thrown into an infantry role.

No doubt that there are many intelligent people serving in the Infantry. My dig on wasn't on the quality or individual intelligence of the men serving, but on the qualifications required to become one. I was in the Army and come from a military family, so I'm familiar with the process :) Recruits who are physically fit and score modestly on the ASVAB are often directed towards Infantry. Of course, many more people volunteer for the job out of a sense of excitement... but no recruiter ever finds a high-scorer and says "Damn! You'd be a hell of an Infantryman!" Now... Special Forces is another matter.

Re: The Battle of the Bulge, I have heard MANY a story where engineers or other high-minded MOS' were thrust into combat roles and performed exceptionally well. I have no doubt that being smart HELPS in combat, just that it isn't the main factor. :)
 

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