Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Tactics are an Important Part of D&D" (a poll)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8705792" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>As noted in an edit to my post above (replying to Overgeeked), I think the clearest <em>intuitive</em> difference between a "strategic" game and a "tactical" game can be found in the kinds of complaints that fans of one will make when they have to do the other.</p><p></p><p>A strategy fan will say things like, "This game is boring! There are no long-term consequences. You just rush headlong into every battle, confident you can win." Or derisively referring to it as "combat as sport," or expressing frustration over other people not realizing that <em>every single combat</em> "has a point," it's just that the point may literally be "you <em>should not</em> have gotten into this fight."</p><p></p><p>A tactics fan will say things like, "This game is boring! Everything is about planning hours or weeks ahead. You never take any risks at all, because you never do anything without being extremely confident you'll win." (Notice the symmetry here? This is not an accident.) Or derisively using terms like "Fantasy Bleeping Vietnam," or expressing frustration over other people not realizing that a lot of the minutiae and "consequences" are just <em>not very engaging</em>.</p><p></p><p>The one thing I find humorous is that <em>both sides</em> will complain about the other being risk-free and being about a character sheet rather than paying attention and thinking creatively. Strategic fans in a tactical-focused game complain that, because each combat is self-contained (and often the players can bounce back from a fight they have won), there is no risk--by which they mean, there is no <em>strategic</em> risk, because the <em>strategic</em> position stays pretty much uniform until the party is pushed almost to the breaking point, where things very, very quickly go from "everything is fine!" to "we are literally one bad situation away from a TPK." Further, they will complain that the game has become nothing but rote, unthinking "button mashing" or the like (this is where a lot of the nasty, mean-spirited comparisons to MMOs come from)--because what they <em>actually mean</em> is that strategic-level resources aren't really present, so you aren't really doing much <em>strategic-level thinking</em>.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, a tactics fan in a strategy-focused game is likely to make <em>very similar complaints</em> but perfectly reversed in reasoning. Because each combat is inextricably linked from "the campaign" as a whole, <em>individual</em> tactical decisions are basically pointless, because combat is so risky, you always want to go into it extremely confident you can win. There's "no risk" (in a <em>tactical</em> sense) because it is <em>desirable</em> that every tactical-scale situation be perfectly decided before the battle even begins: either you win by a rout or you lose (and, hopefully, run away to fight another day...but often not.) Likewise, the individual actions you can take in combat are...well, usually really really simple and not very interesting on their own, so there's no <em>tactical</em> thinking involved--the game becomes "nothing but checking to see if you have a certain piece of equipment or not," exactly parallel to one of the main criticisms of tactical-focused play from strategy fans.</p><p></p><p>The terms used to contrast these things, which I find extremely useful as a tool of analysis, are "lethality" and "volatility." A <em>lethal</em> game is one that tends to lean toward strategic thinking: combat is deadly, so you do everything you can to avoid it, or if it cannot be avoided, you build up every possible advantage <em>long before</em> combat begins, so you can utterly overwhelm the opponent ASAP. A <em>volatile</em> game is one where the future state of affairs is difficult to predict even if you have a very good understanding of the current state of affairs, which leans it toward the tactical: fights become dynamic sequences of puzzles to solve, trying to reason out the best maneuver to apply to <em>this</em> arrangement of participants, knowing that you cannot have perfect knowledge of what will come <em>next</em>.</p><p></p><p>Or, if you prefer examples that are more rooted in a physical product you can see and touch, <em>Crusader Kings</em> is a game series ALL ABOUT strategy, which involves essentially no tactics <em>whatsoever</em>, while <em>Fire Emblem</em> is a game series ALL ABOUT tactics, which involves essentially no strategy whatsoever. (Both of those "essentially no..." is realistically wrong, there are strategic concerns in the form of weapon durability for <em>FE</em> and in the form of deployment of forces in <em>CK</em>, but the meat-and-potatoes of gameplay for the two very clearly pushes the tactical in <em>FE</em> and the strategic in <em>CK</em>.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8705792, member: 6790260"] As noted in an edit to my post above (replying to Overgeeked), I think the clearest [I]intuitive[/I] difference between a "strategic" game and a "tactical" game can be found in the kinds of complaints that fans of one will make when they have to do the other. A strategy fan will say things like, "This game is boring! There are no long-term consequences. You just rush headlong into every battle, confident you can win." Or derisively referring to it as "combat as sport," or expressing frustration over other people not realizing that [I]every single combat[/I] "has a point," it's just that the point may literally be "you [I]should not[/I] have gotten into this fight." A tactics fan will say things like, "This game is boring! Everything is about planning hours or weeks ahead. You never take any risks at all, because you never do anything without being extremely confident you'll win." (Notice the symmetry here? This is not an accident.) Or derisively using terms like "Fantasy Bleeping Vietnam," or expressing frustration over other people not realizing that a lot of the minutiae and "consequences" are just [I]not very engaging[/I]. The one thing I find humorous is that [I]both sides[/I] will complain about the other being risk-free and being about a character sheet rather than paying attention and thinking creatively. Strategic fans in a tactical-focused game complain that, because each combat is self-contained (and often the players can bounce back from a fight they have won), there is no risk--by which they mean, there is no [I]strategic[/I] risk, because the [I]strategic[/I] position stays pretty much uniform until the party is pushed almost to the breaking point, where things very, very quickly go from "everything is fine!" to "we are literally one bad situation away from a TPK." Further, they will complain that the game has become nothing but rote, unthinking "button mashing" or the like (this is where a lot of the nasty, mean-spirited comparisons to MMOs come from)--because what they [I]actually mean[/I] is that strategic-level resources aren't really present, so you aren't really doing much [I]strategic-level thinking[/I]. Conversely, a tactics fan in a strategy-focused game is likely to make [I]very similar complaints[/I] but perfectly reversed in reasoning. Because each combat is inextricably linked from "the campaign" as a whole, [I]individual[/I] tactical decisions are basically pointless, because combat is so risky, you always want to go into it extremely confident you can win. There's "no risk" (in a [I]tactical[/I] sense) because it is [I]desirable[/I] that every tactical-scale situation be perfectly decided before the battle even begins: either you win by a rout or you lose (and, hopefully, run away to fight another day...but often not.) Likewise, the individual actions you can take in combat are...well, usually really really simple and not very interesting on their own, so there's no [I]tactical[/I] thinking involved--the game becomes "nothing but checking to see if you have a certain piece of equipment or not," exactly parallel to one of the main criticisms of tactical-focused play from strategy fans. The terms used to contrast these things, which I find extremely useful as a tool of analysis, are "lethality" and "volatility." A [I]lethal[/I] game is one that tends to lean toward strategic thinking: combat is deadly, so you do everything you can to avoid it, or if it cannot be avoided, you build up every possible advantage [I]long before[/I] combat begins, so you can utterly overwhelm the opponent ASAP. A [I]volatile[/I] game is one where the future state of affairs is difficult to predict even if you have a very good understanding of the current state of affairs, which leans it toward the tactical: fights become dynamic sequences of puzzles to solve, trying to reason out the best maneuver to apply to [I]this[/I] arrangement of participants, knowing that you cannot have perfect knowledge of what will come [I]next[/I]. Or, if you prefer examples that are more rooted in a physical product you can see and touch, [I]Crusader Kings[/I] is a game series ALL ABOUT strategy, which involves essentially no tactics [I]whatsoever[/I], while [I]Fire Emblem[/I] is a game series ALL ABOUT tactics, which involves essentially no strategy whatsoever. (Both of those "essentially no..." is realistically wrong, there are strategic concerns in the form of weapon durability for [I]FE[/I] and in the form of deployment of forces in [I]CK[/I], but the meat-and-potatoes of gameplay for the two very clearly pushes the tactical in [I]FE[/I] and the strategic in [I]CK[/I].) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Tactics are an Important Part of D&D" (a poll)
Top