Take 20 ... gone?

[SteveC]

Hi everyone,
So now that I have my books, I was looking at the nuts and bolts of how the new rules work, and I can't find any mention of the Take 20 mechanic.

Perhaps it's just me missing it, but it looks like the mechanic is gone.

So what do you think about that? (For me, I thought this was one of the better innovations of 3E, and I'm sorry to see it go from the official rules).

--Steve

 

[Mort_Q]

It's just not mentioned in the PH. It is mentioned in the DM for whenever PCs have the time to search throughly, etc.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229619

 

[Obryn]

Hi everyone,
So now that I have my books, I was looking at the nuts and bolts of how the new rules work, and I can't find any mention of the Take 20 mechanic.

Perhaps it's just me missing it, but it looks like the mechanic is gone.

So what do you think about that? (For me, I thought this was one of the better innovations of 3E, and I'm sorry to see it go from the official rules).

--Steve

As mentioned above, it's specifically called out in the DMG for at-leisure searches.

I don't really know that Take 20 would be appropriate for any of the other skills, though. Maybe Heal. Maybe Streetwise. None of the knowledge skills, though, and certainly none of the "active" skills like Acrobatics, Athletics, and Endurance.

-O

 

[blargney the second]

Yay! I never liked Take 20.
-blarg

 

[IceFractal]

You can't really "remove" Take 20 though - you can just make the game slow down when people use it.

3E example:
Rogue: We have plenty of time to check this door carefully, so I'll Take 20.

4E example:
Rogue: We have plenty of time to check this door carefully, so I'll spend two or three minutes - *rolls die 20-30 times*.

That doesn't seem like an improvement to me.

 

[Mort]

You can't really "remove" Take 20 though - you can just make the game slow down when people use it.

3E example:
Rogue: We have plenty of time to check this door carefully, so I'll Take 20.

4E example:
Rogue: We have plenty of time to check this door carefully, so I'll spend two or three minutes - *rolls die 20-30 times*.

That doesn't seem like an improvement to me.

Or, as mentioned above your post, you can just make the take 20 option automatic such that the real 4e example is:

Rogue: We have plenty of time to check this door carefully.

And the DM assumes that everyone searching the door just gets the best result they can (essentially taking 20) - this is the rule as presented on p. 41 of the DMG.

There is no functional difference so "Take 20" is still in it's just not required for the players to expressely state it (though nothing is stopping them).

 

[davethegame]

I thought this was strange too. As has been pointed out before, Take 20 was a shortcut to something that could be done already. However, I was surprised to see Take 10 still in the PHB, which I have far more trouble explaining to players.

 

[mattdm]

I thought this was strange too. As has been pointed out before, Take 20 was a shortcut to something that could be done already. However, I was surprised to see Take 10 still in the PHB, which I have far more trouble explaining to players.

My guess is that it's much easier to explain when you don't have to contrast it to taking 20.

 

[hong]

Heck, is there any skill where you _can_ take 20, with the exception of Search as noted above? It looks like all skill uses now have penalties for failure or can't be retried.

 

[frankthedm]

And it screws with the optional critical failure rules in the DMG. In far to many 3E discussions about critical failure, someone would flap thier gums "Hyuk, Hyuk, Take 20, that will show the DM, Hyuk, Hyuk!" forgetting if the roll can critically fail, then the option to take 20 was already gone.