Taking D&D literally

[fanboy2000]

I find it paradoxel that a game that suposed to model Tolkinesque fantasy fiction looks nothing like Tolkinesque fantasy fiction when taken literally.

I've gotta be spelling Tolkinesque wrong, but have you ever tried to look-up Tolkinesque in the dictionary or spell-check it?

 

[The Human Target]

This is all really cool. Its given me much food for thought.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I find it paradoxel that a game that suposed to model Tolkinesque fantasy fiction looks nothing like Tolkinesque fantasy fiction when taken literally.

D&D isn't supposed to model Tolkienesque fiction. Or any other kind of fiction.

AFAIK WEG's Star Wars was the first rpg to attempt to model fiction.

 

[Henry]

AFAIK WEG's Star Wars was the first rpg to attempt to model fiction.

Actually, wouldn't TSR's Empire of the Petal Throne technically qualify? They licensed it from M.A.R. Barker, who was using it much like Tolkien's stuff, even if he was never published?

After then, you have Sandy Petersen's Call of Cthulhu game in 1980, which was built to model Lovecraft's horror genre.

However, you could say that Forgotten Realms, as written by Ed Greenwood and his 1970's gaming group, was used to model the fiction he wrote as a child, in turn based on Conan and Lord of the Rings.

 

[fanboy2000]

D&D isn't supposed to model Tolkienesque fiction.

You're right. It was trying to model the adventures of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. My bad.

Or any other kind of fiction.

I've gotta a 1e book titled Lankhmar: City of Adventure that's says you're wrong.

AFAIK WEG's Star Wars was the first rpg to attempt to model fiction.

That's forgivable. Leiber's work isn't as well known as it once was. I got into it via the above mentioned book. D&D has definatly encouraged me to read more fantasy.

 

[Ace]

I should talk about my game world Midrea --

It is designed around the basic idea that the D&D magic and monster system is real --
with two exceptions -- Teleport is dangerous and rarely used -- Resserection is also rare because if the soul doesn't choose to come back a passing spirirt or demon may take the body.Beyond that all as is in D&D

#1 Human life has very little value -- Since everyone knows there is life after death and most wounds can be healed with a touch (and any devout person with slightly above average willpower and a little faith can learn healing spells or have sorcery talent or inate magic) wounds are injury are ignored and thought little off FREX Evil clerics often serve as torturers and can keep captives alive a long long time SHUDDER

#2 Cities are brutal -- most cities have harsh laws just to maintain order -- public torture until breaking is routine in evil areas -- good areas (rare) use exile or petrfication

#3 Weapons are everywhere -- with monsters that can kill a squad of soldiers being quite common everyone is armed almost all the time

#4 Large scale war is pretty rare -- the more stressed a society is the stronger its mages and warriors are --pressing some small tribe to the brink of extinction will only make them stronger and may meet with Epic retaliation

#5 Warfare is usally to the death -- since most injuries can be treated in a few minutes and exhaustion and fatigue dispelled with simple magics (as can morale issues) the only effective way to gain and edge over someone is to kill more of them than of you -- This means big casulty counts

#6 Formation tactics are rare -- There is no point in bunching up for average soldiers (l3 IMC) -- the 18-21 HP they have will not help them when the fireballs fly -- 2 Typical 6d fireballs instakill everyone in a 20foot radius -- high level types (with hordes of countermagic) may form a shield wall as may a pile of low level types in a riot situation but in warfare they rarely do

#7 Cav Tactics arent't worth much either -- between Horsekiller Spells (campaign specific to my world published in d20 weekly) and the many other battlefiled nasties a heavy warhorse with its 19HP and requiring mondo training and expense is a liability.Cav is used for occasional scouting or hobilar style mobility

#8 Archers are only medoicre effective -- bunching archers up for an arrowstorm just doesn't work -- archers are always used in ad hoc monster defense or skirmishes

#9 Most fighting is short nasty and violent raiding --It is not large enough to provoke all out war but is large enough for some gain. The rare big war comes against monster armies and the like

#10 Borders are fairly static (except in one area)

#11 Violent Death is very common -- while dying of disease is pretty rare (do to good cleric healing the sick) dying in a fight or by monster attack is fairly common -- suicide is also not unknown -- since the penalties are often harsh many folks carry an alchemical suicide pill to avoid capture -- this method is quicker than a knife and can often be swallowed before someone is held -- The alchemical nature of the poison means it can act before a neutralize poison can be cast in most cases

#12 On the good side famine is pretty rare do to magically enhanced crop yields and good clerics pressure (no food for the poor no healing for you)

In short Midrea is nasty

 

[VirgilCaine]

I find it paradoxel that a game that suposed to model Tolkinesque fantasy fiction looks nothing like Tolkinesque fantasy fiction when taken literally.

I've gotta be spelling Tolkinesque wrong, but have you ever tried to look-up Tolkinesque in the dictionary or spell-check it?

D&D is not flexible. D&D is not meant to model one specific influence. D&D is a quilt or carpet made of little pieces of lots of other carpets. It's not intended to be used for Lovecraftian horror or for Conan-esque games or Tolkien-esque games--it's meant to be a fun, simple game that is not terribly realisitic. Nothing else.

 

[SWBaxter]

AFAIK WEG's Star Wars was the first rpg to attempt to model fiction.

I don't think Star Wars was even the first licensed RPG, let alone the first attempt to model fiction. I believe the first editions of Marvel Superheroes and DC Heroes both predated the Star Wars RPG by several years, and I'm pretty sure the Thieves' World multigame supplement did, too. Of course, most other early RPGs (D&D most definitely included) were direct attempts to model fiction, if sometimes genres instead of specific properties.

 

[A'koss]

War in a RL world with D&Disms can be summed up in sentence...

"Win the war, then bring in the army."

There is only one thing you need to worry about when waging war - your enemy's HL staff. If you can suppress the HL forces of your enemy - the war is won. Conquering nations and powerful lords will essentially boil down to divining all you can about your enemy, come up with a plan to isolate the "problem" targets, then make a swift strike to kill or capture the nation's powerhouses by your own elite squad(s). If you're successful, you simply lay down the law to the conquered LLers and commoners and then bring in your army to maintain the peace. If you need to burn down a few villages or a city or two to make sure everyone clearly understands the change in management - so be it.

You would not bother bringing low level armies onto the field of battle unless you didn't have much in the way of HL support. These kinds of battles would be limited to lesser lords and settling more regional disputes. On a larger scale it would be a waste of men who are useless against the demigod-like abilities of HL opposition.

Cheers!

 

[Mystaros]

[Hijacking]IIRC, the 1e falling rules were 1d6 for 10', 2d6 for 20', 3d6 for 30', and 10d6 [or something] for 40' or more. Essentially, you couldn't really fall more than 40' and live.
[/hijacking]

[counter-hijack]

In 1E, it was a straight 1d6 per 10 feet, up to 20d6 at 200 feet. However, IIRC Gary has maintained in Dragon and elsewhere his original intention was 1d6 per 10 feet cumulative, i.e., 1d6 for the first 10 feet, 2d6 for the second 10 feet, 3d6 for the third 10 feet, and so on, meaning a 30 foot drop would deal 1d6+2d6+3d6=6d6 damage, to a maximum of 20d6 at 60 feet.

I ran an epic-level game once where a munchkined-out 21st level dwarf barbarian fell from 200 feet and survived his Massive Damage save... then flew up to 200 feet again, and dropped... and survived again...

[/counter-hijack]