Taking over a country

[Hawken]

Specifically Sembia.

The premise is a group of characters are given 50,000gp each to take over Sembia through establishing a single business each to operate out of. These characters are all 11th level characters (7 class levels, +4 LA Half-Fiend template).

The DM at first expected them to conquer Sembia, but now has shifted direction to just taking over a single city at the behest of their epic level Erinyes mother.

First, according to the DMG II, 50,000gp (not counting their personal wealth which has been spent on personal magic items) is not even enough to start a business in a metropolis or even a large city, such as Selgaunt. If they can't even afford to start a business, how can they be expected to take anything over.

The DM is not allowing loans to get businesses started. At first, he said there were no banks in Sembia, then he said there were moneylenders, but they would charge too high interest rates, demand collateral and require magical binding of some sort to comply with the terms of any loan--making the prospect of getting a loan so undesirable as to prevent anyone from even doing it.

Also, does anyone think this should be more of an epic campaign than a low/mid level one? Especially when the DM has hinted at sending the players against Zhents, Thayans and just about every other organization already set up in Sembia.

I'm just looking for thoughts/opinions on this.

 

[sckeener]

It sounds like something that will take some time to accomplish.

Sure if you were epic, you do what was done to Chessenta. Being an epic dragon defiantly makes it easier to muscle a country into subservience.

It sounds like a political game. Why half-fiends? I would think something that could change shape would be a better choice for this sort of game.

Does it matter if the characters are on top or some other hellish minion? You might look into seeing what businesses or other factions are easily corruptible.

The other aspects to the campaign are more worrisome...the flat out 'no' banks and later retracting. It sounds like a newbie DM. Nothing wrong with that...just means that the players should be more understanding and help when they can.

 

[WayneLigon]

OK, let's take over Saerloon.

There needs to be nothing 'epic' about it. Normal 'commoners' and 'experts' take over businesses and nations in our own real world every year. YOU guys being 7th level should make this actually fairly easy unless your GM is going to be making, say, the captain of the guard an 18th level paladin or silly stuff like that. Find out what his expectations are about NPC levels or this is all going to end in tears.

Getting the business is simple if you have a Charisma-based rogue, a Bard, or a decent wizard in the group.

You do your research and find a rich merchant with a (preferably) daughter or son of marriageable age. Marry the child, then bump off the old man in a way that seems like an accident, or maybe drive him mad with visions from the depths of Hell. It's a classic. You inherit the business and can go from there. Later on, make sure the kid dies of pneumonia or you addict them to a drug only you supply and it's yours free and clear.

Any number of other tactics similar to this should be obvious.

Creating a climate in which his current business cannot thrive is also a good tactic; say, using some subtle alchemical mixture so that people who eat at The Rusty Nail tavern routinely get sick, or the swords made by Ye Olde Armoury Depot start breaking. Drive his business into the ground and you can pick it up for a song, then re-open Under New Management.

Both of those should appeal to half-fiends because not only do you accomplish your goals, but you ruin the lives of others in the bargain.

OR you spend that loot on a way to permanently Charm the guy and he's your best friend for life. It's as good as owning the businees. I'm sure you ccan convince him to retire and sign everything over to you. The Marriage gambit works best, though, since no magic is involved other than attraction and lust.

Now... why did you need this business, again? It depends a lot more, I would think, on the position of the business owner. If you can take over the guildmaster of a major craft, then you have considerable political power in that city. FRom there, it might be a short step to mayor and complete control. to do that, though, you may need to subvert the council of merchants presently located at Ordulin who elect Saerloon's leader.

To subvert them you need either craploads of cash or you turn them against each other. it depends on the exact party resources but you need a way of changing people's minds over the long term. Charm is well and good but don't rely on it; it sets off magical detections and can be saved against. Working at a few of them long-term with Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidation should be enough to win the day. Gold never hurts, though. Some good blackmail should be easy for y'all to get as well. Or create situations in which you can obtain blackmail material. Don't wait for the apple to fall into your lap!

You position one of your number as the front leading man, a merchant of known fairness in business and sobriety. He can be a depraved monster in private but as long as he keeps the cash flowing along, not many people in Sembia are probably going to care. then once the subversion of the council forces the election of your man into office, he places the rest of you in key positions (captain of the guard, head wizard, etc), or you subvert the others with pleasures and promises only Hell can deliver on.

If you can, by all means someone needs to take that prestige class that serves Asmodeus, I think. That ability to find out secrets once a week is invaluable in this particular situation. You find that one secret that must never, ever come to light and you can wrap that person around your little finger.

 

[Hawken]

Not sure on the why half-fiends, but it is a sticking point with the game since the DM's deus ex machina is the epic Erinyes mother. The Half Fiend stats were tweaked a bit so the characters appear completely human and their stats and powers turned to a more Erinyes style of charm over raw power.

The bank thing isn't the first retraction either. First, Dragon was not allowed as a source, saying it wasn't canon and when I approached with the idea of playing a full blooded fiend (incubus) instead of a half-fiend, he said that I could not because incubi were totally different monsters than just the male version of the succubus because of one of the most recent Dragon issues.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

To me this sounds like trouble. The DM has set you up with the goal, does not seem to have offered much in the way of guidance as to a starting point and has restricted some ways to achieve it. I would be worried that the DM may have fixed ideas about this adventure and may not be flexible enough to let you do things the way you would like, creating challenges along the way.

 

[Sejs]

Sembia's a nation built on commerce.

Don't start businesses. That's playing a losing game.

Two words: Communist. Revolution.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Depends on how you want to accomplish this, ie: Violently or non Violently.

Since I doubt the intent is for you to field an army, the next best thing would be to use subterfuge. Attempting to work your way into the power structure of the city legitimately is probably not going to work. Off the top of my head, any of the following could be reasonable approaches.

1) Impersonate the ruler of the city successfully
2) Start a cult that eventually elevates you to a position of power.
3) Magic jar the ruler's heir and arrange for the ruler to have an accident.
4) Establish a thieves guild, ruin the standard of living in the city, and then lead the peasants in a popular revolt.
5) Murder everyone, one peasant at a time if necessary until you become the sole surviving resident of the city.
6) Marry the rightful ruler, and magically dominate them.
7) Gain control of the water and / or food supply and then have yourself become the effective ruler.

Depending on your time frames, any one of these plans should be at least reasonable to attempt. Success depends of course, on your approach and the DM's judgement.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Numion]

Starting a business shouldn't be that expensive. Going rate for a slave in FR is like 50-70 gps. 50,000 should get you a workforce of about thousand slaves. Or if you're paying one silver per day for labor, it's still 5 million man-days of work.

It would be odd if that don't get somekind of business going.

My best bet would be on founding a criminal organization, like thieves guild (plain ole thieving with gambling, slaveworked whorehouses on the side, for example). You could make more money, and more importantly learn some information on the high and mighty, to later blackmail them.

 

[ha-gieden]

We once took over a city in a campaign where that wasn't supposed to happen! It's one of our "wasn't funny when..." stories.

Basically, we used our talents (I played a cleric) and our wealth to impress the citizens of a very small town. We soon became well-loved and our reputations eventually got pretty inflated. We played this up as much as possible.

We went on several quests to gain magical/valuable items...then we sold them. We actually started a sort of "Ye Olde Magic Shoppe" right in the middle of the little town.

When the DM sent things after us, we would dispatch the strongest and recruit the weakest. Eventually, we had a small army of not-terribly-tough-on-their-own henchmen who didn't attack us because we actually gave them a pretty sweet deal. We even allowed a little petty theft from our coffers (we just worked them extra hard for it).

Our power snowballed. We began buying up failing businesses and making them prosper, then setting up defeated enemies as shopowners so that we could just manage the overall picture and not deal with the day-to-day stuff. The small town grew, and we were the most important and beloved of the citizens. We also had a small army of former-enemies-turned-guards.

Eventually, the king noticed us. He decided to get rid of us in a politically correct way, so he sent us on a Noble Quest to kill a demon.

The plan backfired when we actually did so.

By that time, we were getting to be high level, our army was pretty large, and we owned quite a few businesses. Our town was prosperous, and we were considered on par with Barons/Baronesses even though the king hadn't given us that honor.

This is all over-simplified, of course, because it was a LONG campaign with a lot of complexities, but in the end, the king decided to "go adventuring" for a while and "let us serve in his absence".

 

[Odhanan]

Sembia's a nation built on commerce.

Don't start businesses. That's playing a losing game.

Two words: Communist. Revolution.

Excellent suggestion! Political upheaval, the party takes control and then nationalizes ALL the commerce estates in the country "for the good of the people". Here's the jackpot!

The commerce I would create as a PC in this game? An arcane (as in magical) news network destined to "enlighten the people" and "lead to its ultimate freedom from the bourgeois oppressors." Nice!