Talent trees

[Plane Sailing]

What about Occupations? Other than the PULP HEROES conversion to d20 Modern in a past issue of Polyhedron, I've yet to see others take advantage of that rule that can be used for specific campaign or genre.

I've found the occupations to be a pain in the neck, to be honest. Both as a player putting together characters and from a game integrity point of view. The problem is the "once only as a starting character" part of it and the fact that you can only ever have one occupation even if you spend all the rest of your life doing something else.

I can see the idea of them, allowing a greater diversity of class skills, starting wealth and bonus feats, but I'm sure that they could be implemented better. For instance, making some mechanism (a feat?) that made it possible to change your occupation... (your blue-collar worker's aunt dies and leaves a fortune in her will, so you switch occupation to Dilletante. Lose the old class skills (and any special bonus) feats and wealth bonus, gain the new ones. Probably should be a period of time to make the switch. One month? More? Less?

What I've written above is spur of the moment thoughts rather that carefully planned, but I'm sure that with careful thinking some rules that would enable change of occupation to happen should be possible. Other issues with occupations could also be addressed.

All IMO of course!

Cheers

 

[Vigilance]

What about Occupations? Other than the PULP HEROES conversion to d20 Modern in a past issue of Polyhedron, I've yet to see others take advantage of that rule that can be used for specific campaign or genre.

What I do with occupations in Blood and Guts, I feel, is interesting. Everyone has the military occupation. However, everyone selects an MOS (military occupational specialty) as well- so you are all military, but then you add a second layer of occupation to the mix, so one PC could be an Infantryman, one a Deep Sea Diver, one an Armor specialist (as in tanks) and so forth.

For game balance purposes, the MOS costs you a feat, so that military characters aren't rendered a little more powerful than non-military.

Chuck

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I can see the idea of them, allowing a greater diversity of class skills, starting wealth and bonus feats, but I'm sure that they could be implemented better.

Here's what the Game Mechanics have to say about Occupations:

A starting occupation represents what a character has done in the past to prepare him or herself for the job that starts with being a 1st-level hero. It represents his or her qualifications, preliminary training, and background interests before beginning a career as a modern adventurer (the definition of which will vary widely from campaign to campaign).

From "The Modern Player's Companion, Vol. One"

Well, I'll tell you what I've done with them in Grim Tales, and it starts with jonrog's excellent suggestion to call them what they are:

BACKGROUNDS.

So jonrog is spot on. Don't think of them as occupations; they're backgrounds.

For Grim Tales, all of the backgrounds are redefined into broader categories that do not carry any particular "flavor" of genre. For example, a broad background would be "Academic" and one can easily apply this same background concept to any character whether he be from a fantasy setting, modern, far future, whathaveyou.

I've also condensed the skill list down in the same way-- it is genre- and time-period inspecific, so that helps greatly in making sure that the background descriptions have broad applicability.

Everything else works the way you'd expect it to. The backgrounds give you extra skills, starting wealth, rep, etc.

Wulf

 

[Plane Sailing]

Yes, it makes much more sense to call them backgrounds. Amazing how a word can carry so much additional baggage which obscures the purpose of the rule.


When I get around to converting my Starguild RPG to d20/OGL mechanics I'll certainly be indulging in some skill rationalisation - top of my list (although many would disagree) is rolling Spot and Listen together in "Awareness" and rolling Move Silently and Hide together in "Sneak". This not only frees up some skill points for interesting use in other areas, it reduces the effect of multiple rolls reducing a characters effectiveness. You know the drill - you've got a 50% chance to hide and a 50% chance to move silently, but because you've got to make both rolls you've only got a 25% of actually sneaking up (and the guard gets his spot check AND his listen check against you). I'm not saying that is how it *should* be run, but I'm sure that many, many times that is how it goes. I'd like to simplify that procedure, and I think this does it nicely (after all, it is how my RPG already handled it - maybe that means I'm biased )

Cheers

 

[Doc_Souark]

Thanks for the replys guys, Ranger REG I don't know about other games but the redone for d20 Modern Sidewinder;Recoiled has western type Starting Occupations(backgrounds). At the Black dog rules site is a snakebite of a SWrecoiled NPC with the SO of Ranch Hand.

Since I'm on the just job computer I can't now(my PC suicided) I can't download any PDFs so if y'all have any good Talent Trees e-mail to me( if you would)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Personally, as a talent, where you are choosing sneak attack over another ability, that sneak attack is fine.

Some things to keep in mind: As a talent, your max damage is +4d6.

The only thing that makes it less appropriate possibly in Modern than D&D is the massive damage save.

Given that commandos *are trained* in quick kill techniques, I actually think that's an argument for it.

Chuck

There are also some balance reason in these things - quick kill techniques are fine, but remember that both sides (NPCs and PCs) have them, and a realistically deadly combat is nothing players will really enjoy in the long run. (I wouldn`t like rolling up new characters after every two combats)

I think real life combat is there reason why real life commandos might have quick kill techniques: Because normal people (and even soldiers are normal people in real life) can be killed quite easy. A single bullet kills (or at least disables) a person, and most people don`t dodge a bullet (neither in a Neo-like way nor by simply being not there where the shooter expected them to be - because there are no Hitpoints and Class Defense Bonus to AC).
Quick Kill Techniques in unarmed melee (real life) might be a bit harder to pull off, but I guess most only work against suprised opponents - and that`s what Knockout and Improved Knockout Punch achieve in D20 Modern, even if it is only nonlethal damage that doesn`t kill the target, just knocks it out. (But this is equivalent to death - the next action you could take is a coup de grace. The only reason these feats don`t allow for lethal damage is because D20 Modern is an heroic game and no hero should die "accidently".)

In d20 Modern, you can build high level chacters who have little chance to succeed (alone) in a combat, even if their opponent is of equal or lower level - A Smart6/Charmismatic6 can probably be killed by any Strong6 who took some combat feats (land not Windfall, Alertness, Cautious, Gearhead, Persuasive. Trustworthy and so on).
It might not be a quick kill he delivers (like you expect from a commando), but even that`s not sure. (Knockout Punch again - but a single Pistol Shot might be anough if the opponent only has a Constitution of 10. In our D20 Modern/Shadowrun Campaign, we have such a character - charismatic/fixer(arcane arranger) - combat is deadly for him.).

Anyway, you could try it out and prove me wrong.

But to get back to topic:
I think a ranged attack equivalent of the Improved Melee Smash Ability might be too much (I think it is there to make melee combat worthwhile compared to ranged weapons), but an ignore Hardness Talent tree seems okay.
Ranged Ignore Hardness Talent tree (Fast Hero):
Prerequisite: Evasion or Increased Speed
You are instincively aware of weak spots in a material, allowing you to ignore some hardness.
Ranged Ingore Hardness: Ignore 1 point of Hardness on ranged attacks
Improved RIH: Ignore an additional point of Hardness on ranged attacks
Greater RIH: Ignore an additional point of Hardness on ranged attacks or one point of equipment bonus to Armor Class.

Throwing Talent (Strong/Fast Hero): You ignore the first range increment of thrown weapons. Strong Heros can applie the benefits from Melee Smash also to thrown weapons.

Mustrum Ridcully