Technical question about Lycanthropy

[orion90000]

in 3.5 MM Lycanthropy can only be passed on to humanoids and giants. However in DMG NPC tables you reroll a were(add animal here) to pick the base race. Several of these other races are Monstrous Humanoids (i.e. Minotaur and Doppleganger) or Aberrations (Mind Flayer). Should the term humaniods be loosely defined as anything having a head, torso, and limbs (in which case adding giants would be extraneous), or is DMG in error and Minotaurs, Medusa, Dopplegangers, and even Centaurs are immune to Lycanthropy?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Exactly what tables are you referring to?
The condition of lycanthropy is pretty specific in that it applies only to creatures of the Humanoid or Giant type. So Monstrous Humanoids and Aberrations are immune to it.

EDIT: I think i see what tables you;re referring to. I believe those tables just assume the default stats in the MM. For example, a "wererat" appearing on the table simply means "use the wererat entry in the MM", which assumes a human/rat iirc.

 

[orion90000]

Exactly what tables are you referring to?
The condition of lycanthropy is pretty specific in that it applies only to creatures of the Humanoid or Giant type. So Monstrous Humanoids and Aberrations are immune to it.

EDIT: I think i see what tables you;re referring to. I believe those tables just assume the default stats in the MM. For example, a "wererat" appearing on the table simply means "use the wererat entry in the MM", which assumes a human/rat iirc.

Yeah refering to tables 4-9 to 4-11 in DMG. I was inquiring because of the following posted in the Main Faqs:

There’s no official definition of humanoid physiology. This
is one of those places where common sense and DM judgment
must rule the day. The Sage advises that “humanoid
physiology” should reasonably include any creature whose
body is shaped like a humanoid (upright, probably bipedal
creature) and includes all the basic parts of a humanoid (legs,
arms, a torso, a head). Extra parts—such as wings, a tail, a pair
of extra arms, or even an extra head—shouldn’t push the
creature out of this category. The Sage would even allow some
leeway in the area of legs, since both the centaur (with its
horselike body and four legs) and the halfblood yuan-ti (which
might have a snake’s tail instead of legs) are considered
“monstrous” humanoids.
When in doubt, look at the creature’s descriptive text—if
it’s described as having a humanoid form, it’s probably
reasonable to consider it as having humanoid physiology.
Ultimately, there’s nothing wrong with the DM being overly
lenient in his rulings on this topic.
Among the outsiders in the MM, the Sage would consider
the following to be of humanoid physiology: angel (astral deva,
planetar, solar), most archons (hound archon, trumpet archon),
azer, barghest (in goblin form only), most demons (babau,
balor, dretch, glabrezu, hezrou, marilith, nalfeshnee, quasit,
succubus, vrock), most devils (barbed devil, bearded devil,
bone devil, chain devil, erinyes, horned devil, ice devil, imp, pit
fiend), eladrins (bralani, ghaele), genies (djinn, efreet, jann),
lillend, mephit, night hag, planetouched (aasimar, tiefling),
rakshasa, salamander, slaad, titan, triton, and xill.
Virtually all the undead in the MM have “humanoid
physiology.” only the nightcrawler, nightwing, and any
skeleton or zombie created from a creature without a humanoid
physiology would seem to be exceptions.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Interesting. In the SRD, the only reference I can find to "humanoid physiology" is under the psychokinetic power Control Body:

You psychokinetically control the actions of any humanoid (including undead or outsiders with a humanoid physiology) that is within range and to which you have line of sight.

, in which they still differentiate the two terms. (In this particular case, the general shape of the creature is important because it's effectively controlling the creature externally, as a puppet; not internally via mind control, disease or poison, possession, infection, or the like.)

If nothing else, "humanoid" has a strict definition (the type) and refers to inherent qualities, whereas "humanoid physiology" is open to interpretation, as per the FAQ, and refers to the general shape of the creature.

In short, since the description of lycanthropy clearly refers to the type "humanoid", I'm pretty sure RAW and RAI both exclude simple "humanoid physiology" of, eg, certain monstrous humanoids, as a being subject to the affliction.

 

[orion90000]

'nuff said I suppose. I just find it weird that other humanoid like creatures are exempt from a curse simply because they have horns and tails...

 

[Sekhmet]

'nuff said I suppose. I just find it weird that other humanoid like creatures are exempt from a curse simply because they have horns and tails...

It isn't that far fetched.
Suppose there is a disease that effects humans and not animals, or perhaps a better comparison is to suppose there is a disease that effects dogs but not cats.

A dog and a cat are effectively the same, Animal -> Mammal, but their genetic makeup is different enough to render the Cat immune to a disease that might effect Dogs.

So it is that Monstrous Humanoids are significantly different that they do not incur the same weakness to Lycanthrophy as Humanoids.

Examples of reasons would most likely include Gargoyles, Harpy, Centaur, Minotaur, and Dromite, compared to Humans, Merfolk, Dwarves, Goblins (Goblinoid is a subtype of Humanoid), and Orc.

I think the differences are pretty clear.
Interestingly enough, the Vampire is both a Monstrous Humanoid AND and a Humanoid, without qualifying for Lycanthropy at all.

 

[lordxaviar]

It isn't that far fetched.
I think the differences are pretty clear.
Interestingly enough, the Vampire is both a Monstrous Humanoid AND and a Humanoid, without qualifying for Lycanthropy at all.

I think living humanoid might be included. as a vampire is undead

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah refering to tables 4-9 to 4-11 in DMG. I was inquiring because of the following posted in the Main Faqs:

Don't take that FAQ entry out of context. It does not pertain to lycanthropy nor any other time the term Humanoid is used, it only pertains to Control body's usability on "undead and outsiders with a humanoid physiology". Humanoid is a defined creature type in the rule set, separate from even Monstrous Humanoid.

[sblock=Control body FAQ entry]The control body power (XPH 86) says that you can
control any humanoid, including undead and outsiders with
a humanoid physiology. How far does a “humanoid
physiology” extend? What about a balor (a humanoidshaped
creature with wings), a glabrezu (which has extra
arms), or a salamander (which has a tail instead of legs)? Is
there something official about what counts as “humanoid
physiology” or is it a DM ruling?

There’s no official definition of humanoid physiology. This
is one of those places where common sense and DM judgment
must rule the day. The Sage advises that “humanoid
physiology” should reasonably include any creature whose
body is shaped like a humanoid (upright, probably bipedal
creature) and includes all the basic parts of a humanoid (legs,
arms, a torso, a head). Extra parts—such as wings, a tail, a pair
of extra arms, or even an extra head—shouldn’t push the
creature out of this category. The Sage would even allow some
leeway in the area of legs, since both the centaur (with its
horselike body and four legs) and the halfblood yuan-ti (which
might have a snake’s tail instead of legs) are considered
“monstrous” humanoids.
When in doubt, look at the creature’s descriptive text—if
it’s described as having a humanoid form, it’s probably
reasonable to consider it as having humanoid physiology.
Ultimately, there’s nothing wrong with the DM being overly
lenient in his rulings on this topic.
Among the outsiders in the MM, the Sage would consider
the following to be of humanoid physiology: angel (astral deva,
planetar, solar), most archons (hound archon, trumpet archon),
azer, barghest (in goblin form only), most demons (babau,
balor, dretch, glabrezu, hezrou, marilith, nalfeshnee, quasit,
succubus, vrock), most devils (barbed devil, bearded devil,
bone devil, chain devil, erinyes, horned devil, ice devil, imp, pit
fiend), eladrins (bralani, ghaele), genies (djinn, efreet, jann),
lillend, mephit, night hag, planetouched (aasimar, tiefling),
rakshasa, salamander, slaad, titan, triton, and xill.
Virtually all the undead in the MM have “humanoid
physiology.” only the nightcrawler, nightwing, and any
skeleton or zombie created from a creature without a humanoid
physiology would seem to be exceptions[/sblock]

 

[Donutboy]

But now consider this. Wouldn't it be strange to get chased by a creature with the torso of a were-wolf, and legs of a horse? It's not impossible, it just seems a little strange to fight a winged wererat that was a harpy originally. Some humanoids have specific feature that make it strange for them to be lycanthropes.

 

[frankthedm]

It's not impossible, it just seems a little strange to fight a winged wererat that was a harpy originally.

it is impossible. Harpy are 'Monstrous Humaniod' type, not subject to lycanthropy.

Thankfully Aarakocra are 'Monstrous Humanoid' type, so there couldn't be werewolf who might look like this...