Teleporting into water

[The Forsaken One]

C) And, how do you (can you) teleport out again?
Just like normal. There's nothing in the rules that makes spellcasting more difficult underwater. You can speak and hear (actually better) underwater. In the underwater rules published by WOTC numerous times, no mention is made of spellcasting being more difficult.

According to the rules you must be able to speak in a clear and loud voice to cast spells. This isn't possible without a bubble or air around your head since you can't speak while under water. Unless you are under the effects of a freedom of movement spell or similar.

 

[dcollins]

According to the rules you must be able to speak in a clear and loud voice to cast spells.

You're not muffled or gagged when underwater. Underwater races can still cast spells. I assume that the underwater rules would have to specifically mention that restriction if that was the ruling.

 

[Pax]

The DMG has rules for operating underwater. Check 'em out.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

How's he going to fill the room with water?

 

[Spatzimaus]

There are better ways than filling rooms with water. Most people I've gamed with prepare for water encounters; they're common enough to be worth the effort, even if it's just a matter of carrying a potion of water breathing. Now, if the water were toxic/scalding/filled with eels, you'd be on to something.

IMC, we came up with a bunch of fun anti-BST (Buff, Scry, Teleport) tactics. False floor covering pit full of (insert nasty trap here)... teleport circle under the rug, whose destination is drawn on the underside of a cliff... contact poisons all over the room (bad guy was immune)...

Eventually, we just got tired of having to come up with ridiculous tactics, and just added a series of custom spells that stopped scrying, teleportation, or both. For example, one was a version of Anti-Magic Field that only shut down a single school of magic. Pick Conjuration and no one can use any teleportation spells, but it doesn't stop your offensive spells. Amazingly useful spell.

 

[Darklone]

Room with water hiphigh is nice. PCs teleport inside and grin about the "broken trap".

Then pour a bucket into the water and stir your acid soup

 

[Vahktang]

How's he going to fill the room with water?

There was a waterfall about 200' away.
The party was away for 12 days, enough time for the bad buys to make the walls, build the flue and fill the rooms.
If it was a day or two, the party would have just seen the walls going up and a partial flue.


Well, I did it, and they lived.
Nice surprise though.
I allowed the Reflex save for holding breath, DC 15.
All but one made it, and that one got 1/2 their CON, rather than their full CON.
I set the DC for doing spells underwater at 20+spell level.
I figure that if it's the same on a ship in a storm, it would be the same underwater in calm water.
This allowed the party to survive, they tried 6 spells and half of them failed (10th level party)
I would probably should have done DC 25+ spell level, but I don't like killing parties.

They had to roll a swim every round, of course. Love those encumberance minuses to swim.
They tried to break through the wall, they tried to block the incoming water, they tried to swim to an air pocket.
All failed.
Finally, after about a minute, they teleported out.
Made some magic items and came back a week later to a different point in the dungeon, kicked butt, took names.
They had fun.

'Course now they're trapped in a 15 x 15 room until the sorcerer can do her spells the next day.
There is a 14 inch hole for air, etc, though.
Trying to figure out how to get the bad guys to keep them awake so the spells don't get memorized.
Wish me luck.

 

[jgsugden]

The DMG has rules for operating underwater. Check 'em out.

Check 'em out yourself. There is no guidance on the areas in question. Some people interpret a lack of rules as an intent by the designers for there to be no extra effects. Other people consider the lack of rules to create a place where individual DMS need to make rules.

Also, pressure is unlikely to be a concern. By the rules (3.0 DMG p. 86 here) it only accrues per 100 ft. depth, requiring a Con check after a minute to avoid a little subdual damage.

3.0 is not 3.5. If we're playing 3.5, that rule was removed. In the absence of official rules, DMs need to come up with their own rules. They can either look to previous editions (as you have) or look to the real world. In the real world, sudden pressurization can have some pretty nasty effects, including narcotic like stupors, popped ear drums, etc... The 3.0 rules were handle to allow nonaquatic races to have deep sea adventures, but they were not realistic. A DM must decide which type of adventure he'd liek to have ...

 

[Rel]

Just for the record, I'd have probably required a Concentration check to cast spells but at a lesser DC than you did. BUT, I'd also have reduced the number of rounds they could hold their breath by say, one round per level of the spell cast. After all, you can't really speak clearly enough to spellcast and hold your breath at the same time.

Also, in response to a point brought up above in the thread, I don't think pressure would be a big consideration unless we're talking about a VERY deep complex of tunnels. I've comfortably scuba dived to 140 feet without any sense that the pressure was going to force the air from my lungs. Folks in freediving competition routinely go to depths double that without any problems. I suspect that you'd need to be at least several hundred feet deep before you needed to worry about that issue.

However, the pressure at even just a few atomospheres would be enough to cause intense pain and possibly rupture your eardrums if you were to suddenly find yourself in say 100 feet or more of water. Another possible problem would be if there were an air pocket that you could swim to, the contents of which were under pressure by the surrounding water. You'd be fine while you were breathing it, but if you teleported out to a location at sea level (or worse yet, up on a mountain) then you'd get a bad case of the bends.

All of that assumes you want that level of realism in your game, which I don't necessarily condone or endorse.

 

[Vahktang]

Just for the record, I'd have probably required a Concentration check to cast spells but at a lesser DC than you did. BUT, I'd also have reduced the number of rounds they could hold their breath by say, one round per level of the spell cast. After all, you can't really speak clearly enough to spellcast and hold your breath at the same time.

Good point.
Didn't think of that.

More later,

Vahktang