Tell me about Terry`s Goodkind books.

[Desdichado]

I'm in with J-Z-Jazzy-Dyal on this one.

I'm just glad that in a thread where the word "masturbatory" has been tossed around so many times you didn't call me Jizzy Dyal.

 

[Pants]

See, I can't even really agree with that sentiment either. Goodkind does have sex scenes in his book, but most of them happen "off camera", and even the ones that are described go into far less detail than Martin uses (in fact, I don't think that any one of the last 2 or 3 Sword of Truth books have had any sex scenes that were actually described). The only truly explicit sex scene I can recall from Goodkind's works was near the end of the fourth book, Temple of the Winds.

Temple of the Winds was full of gratuitous sex. Wasn't a whole subplot devoted to some guy torturing and raping people? From his point of view, if I recall correctly. There was plenty more too.

My memory of these books is hazy, but I do remember a pretty graphic sex scene between one of Badkind's Evil Dark Sisters and some demonic monster. Second book I think.

There was an evil child molestor in the first book, can't remember if anything was shown though.

 

[Blue Sky]

I used to read all the Goodkind books, up until Faith of the Fallen. While I'm not a "low-brow" reader by any means, I don't get that into the whys and wherefores of fantasy. Cool is more important to me. And the first few books were cool, if you could ignore the juvenile "morality" lessons in the books. But the last one was so... preachy I could barely read through it. I don't need a book where the main theme was "Uh, you shouldn't ignore evil, or something".

Hmm, I can't really explain it better than that. Guess I'm not much help.

 

[Dagger75]

REad Goodkind way before I ever heard of George RR Martin. The first book was alright but it kept feeling like he was writing then bam how the hell do I fix this. Ohh I know I will let her cast lighting now. He seemed to use way to much Dues Ex Machia IMHO. Then again I hate uber super powerful main characters that can do everything but don't do anything (Looking at you Jordan as well).

I think they sucked, its your time though.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Wizard's First Rule is an interesting and charming story. The world is fresh, interesting, and original. The characters are warm and likable, though some of them are cliched (similar to the way Eddings' characters feel like family, but rarely break the mold.) The story centers on a pair of star-crossed lovers, and their struggle to save their world from a tyrannical madman. Not exactly the most original plot, but with enough new takes on the old theme to be entertaining.

Overall, I found Wizard's First Rule to be an excellent addition to my library. Is it as eloquent as Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? No. Is it as gritty as A Song of Ice and Fire? No. But it does have its own qualities. Warmth. Charm. Romance. And these qualities are strong enough to make the novel a worthy read.

After the first book, unfortunately, things start to go awry. Goodkind seems unwilling or unable to move past his initial novel. He seems like an author who's been dreaming of telling a single story and now that the story's been told, he's at a loss over what to do. Subsequent novels re-tread the original story's romantic subplot, as well as create concepts that feel tacked onto the original world for the sake of having something to write about, rather than being organic parts of the initial conceptualization. Each novel, some new heretofore unknown threat seems to rear its ugly head, Richard and Kahlan get separated, Kahlan doubts Richard's love (in spite of the fact that he's proven his devotion a dozen times in a dozen different ways,) and eventually Richard "instinctively" learns a new kind of magic to save the day. It's the same story, again, and again, and again.

I'd recommend the first novel, Wizard's First Rule, to anyone. I'd recommend they shy away from any of the others.

As for comparisons between various authors, I think that a lot of the comments I've seen in this thread so far seem to praise Martin's virtues while ignoring Goodkind's. Goodkind's romance (in the first novel,) is light-years better than anything Martin has shown himself capable of up to this point, and Wizard's First Rule has a charm in its style and story that Martin's novels do not. Do I dislike Martin? Absolutely not. I love him. But that doesn't mean he is the perfect writer, that his novels have every desirable quality a book can have, or that authors whose novels display different qualities are less talented.

Edit to add: Those posters who've mentioned Goodkind's "morality lessons" have a very valid point. Although this isn't present in his first book, several of his later novels very clearly want to get a message across. Unfortunately, Goodkind doesn't seem to have learned the same lesson Jennifer Roberson has. In the foreward (or afterward, I can't recall) of one of her most recent Tiger and Del novels, she quite unabashedly admits that the series contains a message (which is certainly obvious when you read it). But, she goes on to say, she's always believed that a story with a message must still, first and foremost, be an entertaining story (which her novels are.) She notes that some authors seem to forget this. Sadly, Goodkind is one such.

 

[Crothian]

I enjoy Goodkinds books way more then I do Jordans. Goodkind isn't the best writer for sure but I like his creativity and always felt people's complaints about the S&M were really over done.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Temple of the Winds was full of gratuitous sex. Wasn't a whole subplot devoted to some guy torturing and raping people? From his point of view, if I recall correctly. There was plenty more too.

One of the characters was a serial killer who chose prostitutes as his victims. But I don't think any of the sex scenes were described (although the grisly aftermath of the murders were described).

My memory of these books is hazy, but I do remember a pretty graphic sex scene between one of Badkind's Evil Dark Sisters and some demonic monster. Second book I think.

There was such a scene in Stone of Tears, but the details of the scene were fairly vague, other than a woman was coupling with a demon as part of an evil ritual.

There was an evil child molestor in the first book, can't remember if anything was shown though.

Nothing was ever shown, although it was mentioned a few times that Demmon Nass was a pedophile.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Wizard's First Rule is an interesting and charming story. The world is fresh, interesting, and original. The characters are warm and likable, though some of them are cliched (similar to the way Eddings' characters feel like family, but rarely break the mold.) The story centers on a pair of star-crossed lovers, and their struggle to save their world from a tyrannical madman. Not exactly the most original plot, but with enough new takes on the old theme to be entertaining.

Overall, I found Wizard's First Rule to be an excellent addition to my library. Is it as eloquent as Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn? No. Is it as gritty as A Song of Ice and Fire? No. But it does have its own qualities. Warmth. Charm. Romance. And these qualities are strong enough to make the novel a worthy read.

After the first book, unfortunately, things start to go awry. Goodkind seems unwilling or unable to move past his initial novel. He seems like an author who's been dreaming of telling a single story and now that the story's been told, he's at a loss over what to do. Subsequent novels re-tread the original story's romantic subplot, as well as create concepts that feel tacked onto the original world for the sake of having something to write about, rather than being organic parts of the initial conceptualization. Each novel, some new heretofore unknown threat seems to rear its ugly head, Richard and Kahlan get separated, Kahlan doubts Richard's love (in spite of the fact that he's proven his devotion a dozen times in a dozen different ways,) and eventually Richard "instinctively" learns a new kind of magic to save the day. It's the same story, again, and again, and again.

I'd recommend the first novel, Wizard's First Rule, to anyone. I'd recommend they shy away from any of the others.

As for comparisons between various authors, I think that a lot of the comments I've seen in this thread so far seem to praise Martin's virtues while ignoring Goodkind's. Goodkind's romance (in the first novel,) is light-years better than anything Martin has shown himself capable of up to this point, and Wizard's First Rule has a charm in its style and story that Martin's novels do not. Do I dislike Martin? Absolutely not. I love him. But that doesn't mean he is the perfect writer, that his novels have every desirable quality a book can have, or that authors whose novels display different qualities are less talented.

Edit to add: Those posters who've mentioned Goodkind's "morality lessons" have a very valid point. Although this isn't present in his first book, several of his later novels very clearly want to get a message across. Unfortunately, Goodkind doesn't seem to have learned the same lesson Jennifer Roberson has. In the foreward (or afterward, I can't recall) of one of her most recent Tiger and Del novels, she quite unabashedly admits that the series contains a message (which is certainly obvious when you read it). But, she goes on to say, she's always believed that a story with a message must still, first and foremost, be an entertaining story (which her novels are.) She notes that some authors seem to forget this. Sadly, Goodkind is one such.

While I don't agree with all of your points (I've enjoyed most of the books in the series, and thought Faith of the Fallen was almost as good as Wizard's First Rule), I would just like to thank you for giving an objective appraisal of the series rather than the generic "Goodkind is teh suxx0r. Martin r00lz!" post that pops up seemingly every time a thread mentions Terry Goodkind.

On the subject of George R.R. Martin, I thought his novels were very good. I'll admit to being a little underwhelmed after hearing high praises of his books for the last few years, but overall A Song of Ice and Fire is worth reading.

I enjoy Goodkinds books way more then I do Jordans. Goodkind isn't the best writer for sure but I like his creativity and always felt people's complaints about the S&M were really over done.

I know what you mean. The way some people make it sound, Wizards First Rule was a cover-to-cover collection of hardcore S&M sex scenes.

 

[Pants]

On the subject of George R.R. Martin, I thought his novels were very good. I'll admit to being a little underwhelmed after hearing high praises of his books for the last few years, but overall A Song of Ice and Fire is worth reading.

I was never one to really complain about Goodkind's use of sex, but whatever. Usually, I complained about his amateurish writing, his obvious Jordan ripoffs, his lame plots, and his overly poor worldbuilding.

Wizard's First Rule wasn't bad, in fact, it had some good parts, but Goodkind is too much of a fan of deus ex-machina endings, where things happen just because he says they should with no prior. It wasn't so bad in WFR since the book had some cool ideas, but the later books just got worse and worse.

Stone of Tears copied Jordan so much I'm surprised he got it published. Collars for male magic users? Dark Sisters? A group of female spellcasters? Magic using men who become uncontrollable? The Keeper of the Underworld? Please. One of these things wouldn't be bad, wo wouldn't get picked up on my radar, but all of them? Might as well put Robert Jordan's name on the cover too. Even the name of the book is stolen from Jordan. Despite all this, the book was passable.

Blood of the Fold. Better than SoT, I thought. I liked the demonic mwriswrith (sp?). They were kinda cool.

Temple of the Winds. Ugh. Bad. The book could be cut in half if you cut out 90% of the text about Richard being perfect or Kahlan being in love with Richard. The rest of it was boring.

Stone of Fire (??). The last book I read. This is the one that featured the evil chicken and it's when Goodkind began to get preachy. Surprisingly, my favorite part of the book had nothing to do with Richard or Kahlan.

 

[Aris Dragonborn]

I've enjoyed Goodkind's books to date (with the exception of Chainfire, as I've not yet read it). I've had some problems with the repetition, as it seems that Kahlan is always in trouble, or Richard is, and that the solution to almost every problem apparently lies in a previously unmentioned and unknown ancient temple, where Richard is able to figure out to save the day.

As for his 'preachiness' that was mentioned, well, I can't argue with that. It's not something that has really bothered me, so I haven't worried about it.

I've enjoyed Martin's books so far as well, though at times the books move a little slowly for my tastes.

All things considered, I think *both* series are worth reading. YMMV though.