Tell me about these older edition products [old list]

[Knightfall]

The "White Box" PDF I mentioned earlier is free. You only pay if you want a printed version, much like OSRIC.

Since its free I could e-mail it to you if you can't successfully search for it on Lulu. I think my PM here still works too.

Free is good. I think I'll be able to find it on Lulu. Thanks.

 

[Knightfall]

I don't remember why this book was considered bad by others. If I am vaguely recalling correctly it was over certain changes done to the setting, which I found easy enough to change back or simply ignore.

I do know I found the complaints to be more an issue of laziness, much like how people think 3E is totally incompatible with 3.5 E. They are very easy to use together as long as you know what is different. So "Domains" may have a similar issue for you, but as for basic history and understanding of the setting? It does the job well enough. Just realize there may be new domain lords in this book. In fact I think this book is where Soth becomes a Domain Lord. Hopefully someone who is much more up to date on the Ravenloft history will come along and clear this up. I haven't ran a setting game since 2002, so my Ravenloft memories are extremely hazy.

As for what you seem to want, I think it fits your need very well.

Actually, I kind of like the idea of Soth as a Dark Lord. I was never a Ravenloft purest. I think it is the best choice of all the Ravenloft incarnations, for me personally.

I'm not really interested in the 3pp 3e version. Too many books. At most, I'd buy the monster book for 3e Ravenloft and use Heroes of Horror as my basis for the rules I'd use.

 

[Lancelot]

Apocalypse Stone, the - Epic level module; most suitable for blowing up your campaign world. I adapted it successfully to 3e, and I imagine it would work okay in 4e as well. Surprising amount of role-playing opportunities. In many encounters, the party should optimally be looking to *avoid* combat. Some good moral-dilemma encounters as well, particularly if the DM chooses to customize the encounter to the party's specific make-up. I'd give it a 7/10 for the roleplaying and theme; would be higher, but the combat encounters tend to be pretty bland, there's little in the way of puzzle-/trap- solving, and it's a bit of a railroad at times.

Bestiary of Dragons and Giants - Old school BECMI supplement, with a couple pages detailing a stock lair for each of the major dragon and giant types. Back in the day, it gave me a few adventure seeds... but I can't really rate it compared to modern fare. Few of the lairs showed anything unusual or imaginative, so I'd have to give it a 3/10.

Creature Catalogue - A "fiend folio" for BECMI D&D. I loved this product and got immense use out of it, given I ran BECMI games for over 10 years (skipping most of 1e and 2e AD&D). Having said that, there was a 2e Monstrous Compendium for Mystaran creatures which covered many of the unique creatures from BECMI, and in better detail (ecology, color pictures, etc). If you've got a genuine interest in BECMI, the Creature Catalogue gets a hearty 10/10 from me. Otherwise, you might be more interested in the more modern 2e Mystara Monstrous Compendium.

D&D Rules Cyclopedia - Every serious D&D fan should have already heard about this book. The only truly complete edition of D&D in one book, and its rules for dominion rulership and mass combat are *still* the gold standard. 10/10.

Die Vecna Die - Epic level module. Much, much lethal combat. Spans three entire campaign settings - Greyhawk, Ravenloft and Planescape. Having said that, it does a disservice to all three. Greyhawk has none of the rich history, Ravenloft has none of the creeping horror, and Planescape has none of the atmosphere and philosophy. I've owned it for many years, but haven't DM'ed it yet. Despite the fact that I'm slightly repelled by it's "misuse" of the campaign settings, I think the players would probably find it a blast. This is an even more threatening module than the Apocalypse Stone, because the villain is clearly identified and the PCs will be neck-deep in trouble 95% of the time. Unplayed, I'd still give it a 6/10.

 

[Knightfall]

Well, if you only see yourself playing, no need to get the monsters. The RC is good for a whole lot more than playing. Read it, its probably the finest single rule book ever written for D&D.

Really! Wow, that's high praise for any book.

Interesting...

If you had to pick just one, either the RC or the 1e DMG, which one would you choose?

I'll likely still get both, if I can find the RC. I'm just curious...

Rules Cyclopedia is a one-volume version of BECMI, the boxed sets of D&D marketed as Basic, Expert, Companion, etc. These were published simultaneously with 1E AD&D.

Unless you have a real desire to play the original white box D&D, the Rules Cyclopedia is an excellent choice for playing the old style game.

I'm not concerned with playing the original. ( I think the price of the white box, if I could even find it, would give me a heart attack. ) I'm thinking from what Treebore and you have told me that the RC might be more than just a rule book. Is that a correct assessment?

 

[Lancelot]

Dungeon Master's Guide [1e] - A terrible rulebook but a fun read, thanks to Gary Gygax's torturous prose. Like most of Gary's work, it's schizophrenic in tone. It's just a game and the DM should feel free to call it as they will... but if you're not playing by the written rules, you're not really playing D&D. And I've never liked the concept of DM-as-adversary. Everything you've heard about this book is probably true, including the "random prostitute table", the succubus artwork, the funky cartoons, the overpowered items, and the general wackiness. Ah... the good old days. 9/10.

Fiend Folio [1e] - Amusingly, Dragon Magazine actually ran some editorials/reviews that offered heavy criticism of the FF (wayyy back in the day). They though many of the creatures were functionally useless, lacked theme or motivation, were too similar to existing creatures, or were just plain wacky. I can't say I agree with them. Yeah, it's got the flumph... and the flail snail... and the forlarren. But that's part of it's charm. I liked the Folio much better than Monster Manual 2, and it added many great D&D creatures to the game (death knight, githyanki, githzerai, ettercap, meenlock, etc). 8/10

Fires of Dis - One of the better Planescape modules. Classic planar exploration, without getting too esoteric for some of the slower players. Who wouldn't want to go to Hell and meet Dispater? There are a few weaknesses, particularly the ending. If you play it as written, the endgame is blindingly obvious... which is okay, if you have unsophisticated players. However, I found it more interesting to remove some of the blatant clues and see if the players can figure out what is going on in time. 8/10

Shady Dragon Inn - Well, it's an inn. And some very bland pre-gens. I didn't get much use from this, even in the BECMI days that it was good for. Call it a 4/10. Stats and pictures for some of the "official D&D characters" (Strongheart, Warduke, etc) is of minor interest, but they're available in the Expert module Quest for the Heartstone anyway.

Tales from the Infinite Staircase - Planescape adventure compilation; about 10 adventures, running about a dozen pages each. IMHO, this is the weakest of the three Planescape compilations (Well of the World and the Great Modron March are much better), but there are still some interesting ideas here. Off the top of my head, the adventures include: a classic exploration to rescue someone from a demon, a worm-infested demi-plane, a githyanki astral outpost, a visit to Jangling Hiter in the Hells, a flooded formian hive, a "deserted" library in the shadow of the Spire, a trip through Limbo to the spawning grounds of the slaad, and a murder mystery on the Air Elemental Plane. There is a weak backstory supposedly linking these adventures, but I discarded it altogether and just used them as stand-alones scattered throughout my own campaign. It's not as bad as the module Into the Abyss, but it's still below par for Planescape. 5/10.

 

[Knightfall]

Creature Catalogue - A "fiend folio" for BECMI D&D. I loved this product and got immense use out of it, given I ran BECMI games for over 10 years (skipping most of 1e and 2e AD&D). Having said that, there was a 2e Monstrous Compendium for Mystaran creatures which covered many of the unique creatures from BECMI, and in better detail (ecology, color pictures, etc). If you've got a genuine interest in BECMI, the Creature Catalogue gets a hearty 10/10 from me. Otherwise, you might be more interested in the more modern 2e Mystara Monstrous Compendium.

Well, that decides it for me. I already have the 2e Mystara Monstrous Compendium.

 

[Treebore]

Really! Wow, that's high praise for any book.

Interesting...

If you had to pick just one, either the RC or the 1e DMG, which one would you choose?

I'll likely still get both, if I can find the RC. I'm just curious...


I'm not concerned with playing the original. ( I think the price of the white box, if I could even find it, would give me a heart attack. ) I'm thinking from what Treebore and you have told me that the RC might be more than just a rule book. Is that a correct assessment?

The RC, hands down.

It sounds as if you are not familiar with what the RC is. It is a book compilation of all the boxed sets, including a little bit of the immortal boxed set. So its everything, character classes, spells, large combat, rules for administering/acquiring lands, and even touches upon becoming immortal, but you would still need to get the immortals boxed set if you really want to go there. It is not a Deities book , nor is it a setting book, but it does have Mystara maps in the back and some setting info.

A very worthwhile buy. If you are patient and go for a intact and readable book, instead of collectors or good conditions, you can get it pretty cheap in print. A friend of mine just got one off of ebay a couple of weeks ago for under $15. He had to tape the spine to "stabilize" it but he is very happy with his purchase.

 

[Knightfall]

Dungeon Master's Guide [1e] - A terrible rulebook but a fun read, thanks to Gary Gygax's torturous prose. Like most of Gary's work, it's schizophrenic in tone. It's just a game and the DM should feel free to call it as they will... but if you're not playing by the written rules, you're not really playing D&D. And I've never liked the concept of DM-as-adversary. Everything you've heard about this book is probably true, including the "random prostitute table", the succubus artwork, the funky cartoons, the overpowered items, and the general wackiness. Ah... the good old days. 9/10.

Heh. Heh.

It just sounds like a fun book. Is the 1e PHB as much fun?

Shady Dragon Inn - Well, it's an inn. And some very bland pre-gens. I didn't get much use from this, even in the BECMI days that it was good for. Call it a 4/10. Stats and pictures for some of the "official D&D characters" (Strongheart, Warduke, etc) is of minor interest, but they're available in the Expert module Quest for the Heartstone anyway.

Quest for the Heartstone... hmm, I might be able to get my hands on that one. I can't remember if it's at the local used gaming stores here in Edmonton that I frequent. Whyte Knight has lots of stuff and I can never remember everything they have.

 

[Knightfall]

The RC, hands down.

It sounds as if you are not familiar with what the RC is. It is a book compilation of all the boxed sets, including a little bit of the immortal boxed set. So its everything, character classes, spells, large combat, rules for administering/acquiring lands, and even touches upon becoming immortal, but you would still need to get the immortals boxed set if you really want to go there. It is not a Deities book , nor is it a setting book, but it does have Mystara maps in the back and some setting info.

Cool.

I'm into almost anything Mystara related. Are any of the unique Mystara races detailed in it as PC races? I've created my own versions of the lupin, rakasta, and tortle using the 2e Mystara MC and 2e Savage Coast setting (that was never released), but I'm always looking for more background on those races.

I think this book is a given for me now.

 

[Lancelot]

Heh. Heh.
It just sounds like a fun book. Is the 1e PHB as much fun?

Not quite so much. Gary Gygax strikes a really conversational tone in the DMG, as if he's providing advice directly to the DM-to-be.

For example, there might be a paragraph which says: "Be wary of giving the players too much information. Players of superior capability will undoubtedly identify nonesuch items of dweomered and ineffable puissance without the DM resorting to pedantic hand-holding. Feel free to mislead them!!"

Gary really loved his vocabulary, and his exclamation points. If you want a really classic example of Gygaxian prose, pick up "WG 6 - Isle of the Ape" (TSR AD&D) or, even better, "Necropolis" (Necromancer 3e D&D). I think he must have worn out his exclamation point key when he typed up Necropolis. "If your party is thus disposed after this most heinous and challenging of encounters, then they are truly well-equipped or prepared! But you are up to the challenge, are you not? The Set Rakotep will not be foiled so easily!! The next room will yet be their doom!!!"

The 1e PHB, by comparison, is positively restrained. It's a more perfunctory series of rules and tables for the players, without Gary's crazed passion (and I mean that affectionately) for DM'ing the game.