Templates and Character Level

[terrestrialboy]

I have a bit of a question: If a character, say, makes a half-dragon character that is a fifth level fighter, would that mean his effective character level is 7 or 8 (I don't have my PHB or DMG or MM with me right now so I can't remember what te CR increase is) or is that character still considered a 5th level character?
I'm sure it says something about this in the DMG or somewhere, and I just don't have them with me to look, so I thought I'd kill some time at work and ask a question.

Thanks for any assistance!

Ethan Parker

 

[Orco42]

His effective character level level would be higher. I don't remember what the bump is but I think it is about +3 levels.

 

[kreynolds]

Add the ECL modifier to his class levels to determine his character level. So, if he has a +2 ECL template and he's a 5th level fighter, his character level is 7th. It also means that he will hit epic level with only 18 class levels instead of the usual 20.

 

[mikebr99]

Half-Dragon
"Half-dragon" is a template that can be added to any corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the "base creature"). The
creature’s type becomes "dragon." It uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Hit Dice: Increase by one die type, to a maximum of d12.
Speed: Half-dragons of Large or larger size have wings and can fly at their normal speed (average maneuverability). Smaller
specimens have wings only if the base creature does.
AC: Natural armor improves by +4.
Damage: Half-dragons have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have these attack forms, use the damage values
in the table below. Otherwise, use the values below or the base creature’s damage, whichever is greater.
Bite Claw
Size Damage Damage
Fine 1 -
Diminutive 1d2 1
Tiny 1d3 1d2
Small 1d4 1d3
Medium-size 1d6 1d4
Large 1d8 1d6
Huge 2d6 2d8
Gargantuan 2d8 2d6
Colossal 4d6 2d8
Special Attacks: A half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains a breath weapon based on the
dragon variety, usable only once per day. Use all rules for dragon breath (see the Dragon entry) except as specified in the table
below.
Dragon Variety Breath Weapon Damage (DC)
Black Line* of acid 6d4 (17)
Blue Line of lightning 6d8 (18)
Green Cone** of gas 6d6 (17)
Red Cone of fire 6d10 (19)
White Cone of cold 3d6 (16)
Brass Line of fire 3d6 (17)
Bronze Line of lightning 6d6 (18)
Copper Line of acid 6d4 (17)
Gold Cone of fire 6d10 (20)
Silver Cone of cold 6d8 (18)
*A line is always 5 ft. high, 5 ft. wide, and 60 ft. long.
**A cone is always 30 ft. long.
Special Qualities: A half-dragon has all the special qualities of the base creature, plus low-light vision and darkvision with a
range of 60 feet. Half-dragons are immune to sleep and paralysis effects, and have additional immunities based on their dragon
variety.
Dragon Variety Immunity
Black Acid
Blue Electricity
Green Acid
Red Fire
White Cold
Brass Fire
Bronze Electricity
Copper Acid
Gold Fire
Silver Cold
Saves: Same as the base creature
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +8, Dex +0, Con +2, Int +2, Wis +0, Cha +2.
Skills: A half-dragon has 6 skill points, plus its Intelligence modifier, per Hit Die. Treat skills from the base creature’s list as
class skills and other skills as cross-class. If the creature has a class, it gains skills for class levels normally.
Feats: Half-dragons have one feat for every four levels or the base creature’s total of feats, whichever is greater. Half-dragons
have access to, and usually favor, the dragon feats.
Climate/Terrain: Same as either the base creature or the dragon variety
Organization: Same as the base creature
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 2
Treasure: Same as the base creature
Alignment: Same as the dragon variety
Advancement: Same as the base creature

 

[dcollins]

According to the Core Rules:

* This character has ECL 8 (3 race + 5 class) and so could enter the game when other 8th-level PCs are allowed -- see DMG p. 22, "Starting Monster Levels", 2nd paragraph.

* This character has an effective character level of just 5th, since the half-dragon has no additional hit dice -- see DMG p. 24, "Experience for Monsters", 2nd paragraph.

Other books contain alternative rules for these determinations.
Regardless, CR never has anything to do with either calculation.

 

[kreynolds]

Regardless, CR never has anything to do with either calculation.

But CR determines the ECL modifier, and the ECL modifier determines ECL, so I guess they kinda do have something to do with each other.

By the way, for anyone that's interested, the ECL of a half dragon is +4, which is what you would apply to a character.

 

[terrestrialboy]

Thanks for the help, all! Take care!

Ethan

 

[dcollins]

But CR determines the ECL modifier...

It's unclear whether you're purely joking or mean that seriously.

There's nothing in the Core rules which implies anything like CR determining the ECL modifier. The designers have repeatedly said exactly the opposite.

According to DMG p. 22 (Table 2-4), the ECL for a half-dragon is +3. Again, my post here and above is specific to the Core Rules.

 

[kreynolds]

It's unclear whether you're purely joking or mean that seriously.

Neither. Sorry. I should have been more specific.

The core rules suck at this issue and don't address the problem. Turn to the FRCS for functional ECL rules.

I pulled the +4 ECL modifier from Dragon Mag, and yes, I know those are just preliminary numbers. Also, the CR of a creature is one of the many things that helps determine what the ECL should be, kinda like a rough guide.

 

[Jeremy]

I have a bit of a question: If a character, say, makes a half-dragon character that is a fifth level fighter, would that mean his effective character level is 7 or 8 (I don't have my PHB or DMG or MM with me right now so I can't remember what te CR increase is) or is that character still considered a 5th level character?
I'm sure it says something about this in the DMG or somewhere, and I just don't have them with me to look, so I thought I'd kill some time at work and ask a question.

Thanks for any assistance!

Ethan Parker

Depends. For the purposes of XP awards, starting level, starting gear you are effectively 3 levels higher than your class levels would seem to indicate. For everything else, HD affecting spells, Feats, stat increases, everything else, you are a 5th level fighter.

Go here for a good explanation on how it all works and how it works together.

http://www.webspawner.com/users/enbsoldarin/index.html