Tempo from the point of view of GMs and Players

As a game master and storyteller, I always try to work a nice dramatic arc into each session. You don't kill off PCs in the first round of combat at the beginning of the game, and you try really hard to not let the climax at the end of the session end with a whimper.

Last game, the party of 13th level PCs went up against a foe they'd been working their way up to for a while. A 20th level monk/psion, who, with various enhancements, was dealing 6d8+10 damage per hit. And he got 6 attacks per round.

In the first round of combat, he just got off one attack while spring attacking, dealing a lot of damage to one PC. This was the round where the PCs were supposed to see, "Dang, he can hurt us, and uh oh, he's got a 42 AC, so we can't really hurt him effectively."

The next round, he manifests a power from Mindscapes, something deliciously broken called 'brutalize wounds,' which makes the target take full damage from all attacks, instead of you having to roll. The PC failed her save, the party psion figured out what the power was, and the group got scared. They chased after this fast monk, getting one attack through his defenses, dropping him to a mere 180 hit points.

Now, the third round is where things went awry. I could have just had him go full attack on the PC who failed her save against brutalize wounds, which would kill her, but it was too early in the encounter, and I knew that the monk's saves were high enough that he wouldn't fall prey to any of the instant death spells unless he rolled a 1. So instead he whirlwind attacked the people who had surrounded him, hitting the brutalized PC for 58 points of damage, and everyone else for 40 or so.

I understand tempo, and in the fourth round, the round that few combats go beyond at this high level, the monk was going to take out the brutalized PC if she didn't get the hell out of dodge, and otherwise he was going to just full attack whoever was within range. But the PCs, who don't understand tempo, and who don't know that the villain is supposed to kick ass and nearly beat the party before the party beats him, up and cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter on him. And for his save, he rolled a 1.

Now, I'm already laughing at how overpowered this spell is, which effectively keeps a creature from doing anything for 13 rounds. He can defend himself, but he can't move or attack or pretty much do anything. But I can't believe that even as a 20th level character, his attempts at butt-kicking can be thwarted by a 2nd level spell.

So I ask, as a GM, do you ever fall prey to bad timing? You're not planning to pull your punches in the long run, but you don't feel that killing a PC in the first round of combat makes anyone have more fun, so you try to build slowly, dramatically, and have your thunder stolen from you. That ever happened?

Players, do you usually just try to win as fast as possible, or do you consider whether waiting to pull out your big guns would make for better drama? Have you ever planned to start small and build, and then had your character taken out before you had the chance, or had a major combat end too early?
 

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As a player, I always go full bore when entering a combat. Failure to do so could result in loss of my character or other members of the party, and as you discovered, the D&D system can result in a sudden death or incapacitation at any moment during the combat. The most dramatic combats I have ever seen were ones where neither the DM nor the PCs pulled punches, and fought to the best of their abilities. I don't really think you can force drama in the D&D system, it just happens, or it doesn't.
 


RangerWickett said:
But I can't believe that even as a 20th level character, his attempts at butt-kicking can be thwarted by a 2nd level spell.

Haha! Go Tasha! :D

A bard could've done it with a 1st level spell. :p

What I can't believe is, that a 13th level character actually casts this spell in that situation? Was he/she desperate and hoping for the natural 1? ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

I don't pull my punches - but an NPC may, depending on the circumstances and the individual NPC. I TPKed the party yesterday (one BBEG helped them a bit against a tougher one and then took them out when they won and were comparatively weak) and this issue came up.

Let's call them BBEG1 (vampire mage) and BBEG2 (human cleric). BBEG1 started off with fireballs and similar stuff, mainly because he substantially underestimated the party (had last spied on them when they were much weaker). By the time he pulled out the big spells, it was too late, and even though he killed some of them he got toasted.

BBEG2, after taking part in the beginning of the fight, hung back and buffed himself. He got a chance to see the party's capabilities and what sort of magic they'd used up, so when he waded in he dropped his biggest spells and abilities on the dangerous characters and took them out.
 

Thanee said:
Haha! Go Tasha! :D

A bard could've done it with a 1st level spell. :p

What I can't believe is, that a 13th level character actually casts this spell in that situation? Was he/she desperate and hoping for the natural 1? ;)

Bye
Thanee

Y'know, that is a good question. I mean, truthfully, the guy had a +22 Will save, and the mage's highest DC would've been 24 for a 7th level spell. I mean, I guess I can't really be too miffed, since I doubt the player expected the spell to work (plus he was still thinking of the 3.0 version that lasted just 3 rounds). But yeah, why the heck didn't he try power word - blinding the guy or something? (If he had, the psion had Feel Light!)
 

This is why in my campaign, a natural 1 is -10, and a natural 20 is considered 30. It was the instant kill on one of my prized encounters that eventually led to this rule. The Players are fine with it, as it prevents stupid little mages from casting 2nd level spells at them and actually having a 5% chance of FAILING their saves. :D But strangely enough, they're the first to complain when they score a nat 20 and confirm the crit before I have a chance to tell them: "You missed."

That always puts the fear into them. For some reason, the characters usually run at that point... :D


Chris
 

RangerWickett said:
So I ask, as a GM, do you ever fall prey to bad timing?

Yeah, it seems villains are always hanging around for just one round too long. I'll think, "Hmm, next turn, he's fleeing" (often in some way the PCs won't be able to follow or foil), and he'll die before his next turn comes around. Somebody will land a critical hit, a monks flurry will actually hit, a saving throw will be blown, and/or SR will be penetrated, and down goes mopsy.
 

It pays to actually be immune to stuff, instead of having good saves. Not that good saves aren't good, but they're often insufficient. Mind Blank is your friend. While only failing on a 1 seems really great, 4 such spells hitting in round has like a 19% chance of success. And since even low characters can have save or get screwed spells, you might have to face more than 4. Our whole party almost lost to this crap (but we needed more 1s).

As a player, whether or not I go all out depends on the situation. Against foes that I think wouldn't provide much of a threat, I often hold back. No sense wasting big spells if you don't have to. When playing a high level evoker, I liked using Gedlee's Electric Loop and Fire Orb in these situations. While the damage is rather unimpressive (5d6 for loop, usually Fire Orb was spread to many targets so 5 to 3d6 for it), it helps. More importantly, these spells have a stunning or dazing effect so the rest of the group can mop up faster. And if what looks to be an easy fight suddenly seems different, your spells that have been denying enemy actions should be you from being too far behind. Also, one high end monster summoning is usually sufficient for a whole fight against moderate power baddies, and can serve as an early warning if they take it out easily.

On the other hand, if the enemy is really tough, or I feel like showing off because there's likely to be little further need for artillery, then the big guns come out. When fighting the big bad, the safeties come off on the highest spell levels. Or if the big bad is already dead and then you need to mop up his important minions and horde of lackeys, then dispatching the inferiors with contemptuous ease seems appropriate.

In short: Tough fight, no reason to save spells -> all out. Easy fight, spells needed later -> hold back.

But a character down or about to fall seems like a good reason to escalate the violence.
 

RangerWickett said:
So I ask, as a GM, do you ever fall prey to bad timing?

I expect every GM has timing issues on occasion. The trick is to then roll with it, and turn disaster into story. Different story than you originally expected, but them's the breaks sometimes.

Players, do you usually just try to win as fast as possible, or do you consider whether waiting to pull out your big guns would make for better drama?

As a player, I don't hold back for dramatic reasons. That's a good way to get a character (or whole party) killed. I use what force and/or resources seem to be required. You don't waste your expendable power when you don't have to, lest there be something nastier around the corner. But holding back effort you know is required just to highten drama is suicidal.

In a properly crafted encounter, there'll be drama whether you like it or not. You shouldn't have to use bad tactics to generate it artificially.
 

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