Tempted to Run Blue Rose backwards

[drothgery]

I would do the same, except I'd leave Jarzon a theocracy just to play with the setting even more. It's not like a largely benevolent theocracy is theoretically impossible.

True theocracies don't tend to last very long in the real world, at least when given control of anything much larger than a city-state; a monarchy with a powerful established church is more likely in quasi-medieval/early Renessaince-esque settings.

What I'd consider doing is shifting the timeline forward a bit. Aldis succombs to decadence and is overrun. Jarzon loses some of its hardest edges and becomes a constitutional monarchy with an established church and large Aldean expatriate community.

 

[Crothian]

True theocracies don't tend to last very long in the real world, at least when given control of anything much larger than a city-state; a monarchy with a powerful established church is more likely in quasi-medieval/early Renessaince-esque settings.

I always wondered why in places of magic and talking animals people worried about the realism of governments.....

 

[Nisarg]

Obviously, it's the idea that it's the society that most resembles modern religion being the bad guy that rubs people the wrong way. But the idea is that the people of Jarzon think Jarzon is good, but that a society that commits attrocities in the name of the greater good has still commited attrocities.
.

Actually, the concept that a society could be a religious theocracy doesn't bother me one bit.
I'm willing to accept as "realistic" the premise that a theocracy can and often will be corrupt, or organized religion can sometimes end up perverting its dogma to cause atrocities.

Its the kind of rose-hued (pardon the pun) utopianism of Aldis that I find silly. The premise that if post-modernist relativist hippy nanny-state social-engineers ran the world it would be paradise and only evil "intolerant" people would be unhappy; or that such a society could even exist without a massive repression of personal freedoms.

Nisarg

 

[Crothian]

Its the kind of rose-hued (pardon the pun) utopianism of Aldis that I find silly. The premise that if post-modernist relativist hippy nanny-state social-engineers ran the world it would be paradise and only evil "intolerant" people would be unhappy; or that such a society could even exist without a massive repression of personal freedoms.

Except it doesn't say every one is happy here and these people are unhappy. It just states their beliefs. The game has a focus of who is good and not good, but not really who is happy.

 

[Nisarg]

I always wondered why in places of magic and talking animals people worried about the realism of governments.....

Because different people have different thresholds of suspension of disbelief, in different areas.

I have no problem with playing a fantasy game with magic and talking animals, or a science fiction setting where the technology regularly violates the laws of physics.
But a setting where human beings don't act like human beings, or governments or other social institutions do not work in a way that would be within the limits of believability is something that grates me, and instantly inspires me to play against-type.

Nisarg

 

[drothgery]

I always wondered why in places of magic and talking animals people worried about the realism of governments.....

Mostly because humans don't stop acting like humans just because there's magic around (and, well, $INSERT_RACE_HERE$ don't stop acting like humans either, but that's another story...). Undeniable interventionist deities might make a theocracy work long-term, but otherwise, it's difficult.

 

[Crothian]

Because different people have different thresholds of suspension of disbelief, in different areas.

I have no problem with playing a fantasy game with magic and talking animals, or a science fiction setting where the technology regularly violates the laws of physics.
But a setting where human beings don't act like human beings, or governments or other social institutions do not work in a way that would be within the limits of believability is something that grates me, and instantly inspires me to play against-type.

However, with the effects of magic and other changes a fantasy world has it is that hard to imagine that humans in gerneal would work differently under these influences? There are factors in such worlds not seen in any earth based culture so thinking that the people would turn out exactly like 20th century people seems a bit far fetched to me.

 

[Nisarg]

Except it doesn't say every one is happy here and these people are unhappy. It just states their beliefs. The game has a focus of who is good and not good, but not really who is happy.

But Aldis, as presented in the setting, is a utopic state that seems to depend on everybody agreeing to be terribly nice to each other. It doesn't appear to have any contingencies for people who would not accept the social engineering of the setting.

When you think about it, people who didn't want to live in a state where everyone is "equal", or who showed an "unacceptable" level of personal ambition or aggression, who acted just too plain masculine, or who wanted the freedom to engage in self-destructive behaviour; or who, say, believed that there was a better way of choosing a monarch than a farsical woodland ceremony, could only really be dealt with by extreme repression, exile, or death.... which kind of makes all the Aldisian claims of "tolerance" and benevolance a load of bunk.

Nisarg

 

[Crothian]

Mostly because humans don't stop acting like humans just because there's magic around (and, well, $INSERT_RACE_HERE$ don't stop acting like humans either, but that's another story...). Undeniable interventionist deities might make a theocracy work long-term, but otherwise, it's difficult.

That's what we would like to believe but humans haven't been challenged with another intellgent species and I think that would really alter the way things work.

 

[Nisarg]

However, with the effects of magic and other changes a fantasy world has it is that hard to imagine that humans in gerneal would work differently under these influences? There are factors in such worlds not seen in any earth based culture so thinking that the people would turn out exactly like 20th century people seems a bit far fetched to me.

Well, they wouldn't act like 20th century people. I never said that.

Certainly, the effects of things like magic and deer-gods-with-the-power-of-choosing-monarchs would strongly alter human culture. It could result in any number of "realistic" results.

Utopia, however, would not be one of them.

Really, the ones who would be wearing a 20th century blinder would be people who believe that a setting like this could be "realistic", since the whole romantic fantasy genre is based on porting modern day feminist/new age utopian theory into medieval fantasy cultures.

Nisarg