D&D 5E Test of High Level 5E: Design 4 or 5 lvl 13 PCs for 6 to 8 encounter adventuring day

[Celtavian]

As I expected last night, we would soon have cries that this experiment doesn't prove anything. Amazing the kind of foresight one would need for such a thing.

I thought this was understood from the beginning. The experiment is only meaningful if it represents what a DM would be able to work with on a roughly 50% basis as Flamestrike put it which would be likely about 20 to 30 encounters between lvl 13 and 20.

 

[Azurewraith]

.

If anyone else fancies joining in, I'd be grateful. I'm not sure I can play five 13th levels on my own and do justice to this experiment. Two heads are better than one, and so on. Any volunteers?

Sure why not ill try get a character knocked up tonight. Anything in particular? I'm assuming standard array and nothing of limits?

 

[Flamestrike]

Bedrock looks thoughtful for a moment. "One hears bard's tales, of course, but they cannot always be believed. Some say it was lost in The Calamity of Flind, some say it was carried off to the abyss by demons after the battle of Estor. But my friend Edward the Diviner is the one to ask."

Bedrock blinks twice. He has received a Sending. "Indeed, Edward is on his way here, e'en now."

A portly wizard enters, through the wall. He has an absent-minded air and the front of his robes is gravy-stained but his eyes look around keenly. It is somehow clear that his mind is as keen as mustard. "What-ho, Bedrock! Why is your cloak all wet? You didn't walk here in the rain, did you?"

Edward bows to Myrkyn and makes a little hand gesture of greeting, as one wizard to another. But there is a subtlety to it that signals a multitude of arcane information. They have an understanding. "Don't happen to know where I can get hold of a Reverse Gravity scroll, do you, old chap? I've always fancied learning that and having a play with the forces and whatnot. Oh, Blackrazor. Yes, nasty bit of work. I gather it's surfaced again? Well, we'd better do something about that toot sweet, hadn't we?"

'Well met Edward. And yes... there is more to Blackrazor than it being just... a sword.'

He pauses.

'In a multiverse far removed from the prime material plane, powerful beings kept absolute order, banishing entropy and decay to preserve the planes of their reality from its long-overdue death. Yet with all their power, eventually the artificial stasis imposed by these entities failed and the multiverse began to die. Like worms in rotten wood, creatures from beyond infested the rotting multiverse, speeding its destruction.'

'The wizard Keraptis time-communed with the rulers of this multiverse, who granted Keraptis the knowledge needed to transform one of the reality-parasites into a weapon in exchange for taking it back to his own planes. The creature that Keraptis forged into Blackrazor was an abomination similar to an atropal, a stillborn god.'

'The sword blackrazor is in reality not a sword at all. It is... a hole.. or tear in the fabric of reality. A prison demiplane that traps an entity more destructive and more powerful than any other being in existence. A being capable of destroying all of reality as we know it. A being beyond the reach of the Gods themselves.'

'Until recently the weapon was kept secure in the armory of the king under lock and key and magical wards. We thought the vault was impenetrable. However it was stolen back by the Wizard Keraptis a few weeks ago. How, we do not know. We recently hired adventurers to retrieve it, keeping them in the dark about the weapons true nature.'

'We have reason to believe that somehow those adventurers failed. Even worse, the tear in reality that is blackrazor has.. ruptured, and this being, this atropal... has escaped.'

He pauses as if waiting for questions.

OOC: Give me an hour or two to work up a couple of character sheets for Bedrock and Edward.

If anyone else fancies joining in, I'd be grateful. I'm not sure I can play five 13th levels on my own and do justice to this experiment. Two heads are better than one, and so on. Any volunteers?

Roger mate.

I can answer a few more questions myself before I head to bed.

 

[Bawylie]

Cheers to BI.

This is precisely why I have the following house rules: You sit down to play, you play. And No defective adventurers.

 

[benbatman]

Happy to help out where I can. To make life simple, you could use the level 13 PCs that Celtavian created, with minor personality adjustments so they are actually interested in things like the fate of the universe.

 

[Delazar]

Probably not helping with this post, but could we do this in a separate thread? Now we need to go through the flaming banter to find the snippets of cool RP... Maybe, once the party accepts the mission, open a new thread, with the adventure proper?

 

[Celtavian]

No mate, you didnt. You did the exact opposite and instead posted a swathe of metagame arguments that had nothing to do with in character reasons (or whatever in character reasons you provided were little more than metagame justifications themselves).

I deal with metagame discussions in a long-term D&D campaign all the time as a DM. Every single session and every campaign prior to character creation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what players do in a long-term campaign. The risk-reward thinking. The personal goals that often involve seeking power they can use. Choosing adventures carefully that fit what they want to do.

All five characters in your party had (apparently) zero reason to want to be wealthy, save the world from destruction, aquire land and titles, stick it up that other band of adventurers, or be owed a debt by the king of the realm.

My players want the following:
1. Magic items they can use to make their character more powerful.

2. Levels.

All the other stuff gets bored looks from my players. Getting lands and title was fun when it first happened, decades ago. Gold is only a means to acquire magic items. Saving the world? They've done that dozens of times.

There response to this is, "Blah, blah, blah, stop the BBEG from doing BBEG stuff. Are there going to be good magic items? Did I get my level?"

Agree. No hard feelings.

I don't have any hard feelings. I was interested more in the combat part of the experiment than the roleplay.

The main reason I gave you a hard time was to illustrate what I deal with in high level play. My players won't play with DMs that kill them too often. They want their levels. If they invest a great deal of time in a character, they get unhappy if I kill them.

They don't like timetables, this was especially true in 3E because they had no time to make magic items. I had to ensure they had time to make magic items or they were not having fun.

My players in 5E are barely tracking gold. They have nothing to do with it. I've started to allow them to purchase magic items now and again, so they have motivation to track gold. The whole wealth thing would have been a useless offer.

Now had we got around to it, I planned to negotiate for specific magic items or closer to the mark of what the players would use. They would have negotiated for magic items they can use. That would have motivated them to do the adventure.

It is my experience that most long-term players think this way. DMs usually concentrate on fun encounters or stories. Players are usually self-interested wanting advancement and magic items they can use. I'm sure experiences differ, but that is my experience.

 

[Flamestrike]

I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I think youre right! My apologies. Ill flick you those maps in a bit before I crash.

 

[Flamestrike]

I deal with metagame discussions in a long-term D&D campaign all the time as a DM.

This is a problem outside of the rules mate. Find yourself a different group.

My players want the following:
1. Magic items they can use to make their character more powerful.

2. Levels.

All the other stuff gets bored looks from my players.

There response to this is, "Blah, blah, blah, stop the BBEG from doing BBEG stuff. Are there going to be good magic items? Did I get my level?"

Look mate, this is a whole different argument than the premise of this thread. Its worthy of its own thread, but I dont want to derail this one further.

It is my experience that most long-term players think this way. DMs usually concentrate on fun encounters or stories. Players are usually self-interested wanting advancement and magic items they can use. I'm sure experiences differ, but that is my experience.

My experience is quite the opposite. Most players are gamist murderhobos early in their playing career, until exposed to a living breathing campaign run by a good DM at some stage then they see a whole different side to the game.

Look, If this is how you want to play your games at home, good on you. If you dont, but are getting railroaded by players that want something different to you, then I suggest finding a new table.

Topic for a different thread perhaps?

 

[benbatman]

I deal with metagame discussions in a long-term D&D campaign all the time as a DM. Every single session and every campaign prior to character creation. I'm trying to illustrate to you what players do in a long-term campaign. The risk-reward thinking. The personal goals that often involve seeking power they can use. Choosing adventures carefully that fit what they want to do.

My players want the following:
1. Magic items they can use to make their character more powerful.

2. Levels.

Which is all fine if you want to DM a group of murder hobos. But, given that the NPC Archmage offered you a mountain filled with magic items and enough dragon-shaped experience bundles to level at least once, all for the very low cost of half a day's work, I think you've missed the point of this exercise; does the 6-8 encounter adventuring day work for level 13 characters?