D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

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I think lots of people sing the praises of Goodman Games, Necrotic Gnome, Exalted Funeral, and Melsonian Arts Council, to name a few.

So, what are you doing to laud the good OSR people?

I'd say the very existence of the aforementioned Goodman Games' OAR indicates otherwise. Not to mention their own Tales from the Yawning Portal and Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and countless nods to the past and deep lore dives that show up throughout 5e.

What is Wizards doing?

Oh, that's right, they're making the OSR movement feel unwanted.

Oh how I love that bugbear illustration! Perfectly seasonal right now, too.

 

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DarkCrisis

Legend
This I think is true. And one reason I really like 5e.
Good article! I agree with him about how old school was more lethal and DMs meant to be impartial and modern D&D is more superheroic and laid back.

When I play 5E I never worry about surviving a combat. And even if I do get laid out, Revivfy and a nights rest is there to fix all my problems. When I play AD&D Im much more worried about the combat and try to play smarter. Both are valid ways to play.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Or the last video they made with Venger about the TSR v762 thing. Or the whole thing with them supporting Zak S. Wasnt also in many picture and vids with neo-nazi (or Klan members) some years ago?

I guess their account was pirated by Russian hackers, right?
Wait, who are you accusing of being in videos and pictures with neo-nazi's and/or KKK members some years ago? That seems like a very strong allegation if you're unsure.
 



Wait, who are you accusing of being in videos and pictures with neo-nazi's and/or KKK members some years ago? That seems like a very strong allegation if you're unsure.
Here is what I can say for certain: he called a white supremecist a hero on his blog.

yes yes I know yes he claims he said it was before we knew the man at Berkeley be a white supremecist. But, fun fact, he knew full well that the person MAY be a white supremecist when he wrote it, acknowledged he wasn’t sure, but felt comfortable enough to take the stance of “that person is a hero regardless” because he was angry that the woman came looking for violence against nazis.

He points out as evidence that she deserved being punched because on her Facebook she came looking for 100 nazi scalps to a “free speech event”. Note that in his addendum, he removes the word Nazis from her quote, likely to maintain that he was right to condemn her.

He calls himself a journalist (see: blog) but couldn’t wait to give his public opinion before the research was done on the white supremecist. Yeah. Like any good journalist.

She attempted violence against a white supremecist, someone he claims to hate and distance himself from, but doubles down on she deserved being hit by him because…she did exactly what she said she was going to do and went after a white supremecist.

There’s no way around it. He lauded a white supremecist. He later defended a white supremecist. He condemned someone taking action against one. He later doubled down on that same condemnation claiming there was no way for her to know that man was a white supremecist.

Mmmhm. I mean HE knew the dude could be one and admitted as such and he wasn’t even AT the event, but ok sure there’s No WaY sHe CoUlD hAvE mOrE iNfOrMaTiOn ThAn He. Mmhm. Probably cause he’s a journalist.


Whatever. He can say he condemns those types of people (white supremecist) all he wants. And maybe he believes that’s true. Certainly his defenders believe it to be true.

But he will happy cheer when an anti-nazi is punched in the face for confronting a white supremecist and he will march alongside a neo nazi, just as long as the nazi doesn’t ask him to do nazi things.

one thing I want clear: this is all information from his blog. This isn’t me regurgitating someone else’s interpretation as fact. These are his words and his actions alone
 

Keefe the Thief

Adventurer
Oh, we are on page 24 already. So, what did we find out? Do D&D players have a sense of humour? Can we revise history and say that Thac0 was actually a good idea? Should we rename the NPC to "BAB the better rules solution"? Are white supremacists actually assholes? (the answer to this one is easy, at least: to hell with them). And which of my questions guarantees another 24 pages?

Oh, sorry. If I don´t post at least one relevant fact based on my own opinion, this could qualify as a drive-by. So: "if you are offended by Thac0 the clown, you need another coffee".
 



Good article! I agree with him about how old school was more lethal and DMs meant to be impartial and modern D&D is more superheroic and laid back.

When I play 5E I never worry about surviving a combat. And even if I do get laid out, Revivfy and a nights rest is there to fix all my problems. When I play AD&D Im much more worried about the combat and try to play smarter. Both are valid ways to play.
For me it scratches different itches. Though to 5e’s credit: if you dial it up you can make it more lethal and capture some portion of that old feeling.

that said, for a while I thought I wanted to go back to AD&D 1e. And maybe I will do some of that again…but 5e has done enough right that I coming back to it….

whatever it’s flaws, they have made a lot of really good decisions and I feel like I have barely scratched the surface.

1e kept me feeling that way due to the super slow advancement and quest for treasure but 5e has really done it with many “new things” just over the horizon and the evocative character developing infrastructure.

but I would get into AD&D again. We played becmi with my youngest and had a blast.

I could probably have some fun with any edition. Man I just like to play.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
The Pundit.

It was during the whole Charlottesville (sp?) manifestations and attack by a neo-nazi. From a quick read on the Internet, he's defense and the ones from his...fervent...defenders is:
  • The neo-nazis just happened to be there next to him.
  • There was no neo-nazi, only (and I quote) pedophilic-libtards disguised.
  • The whole Charlottesville terrorist attack is an hoax by some kinda left-wing-whatever coaliation.
  • Just because you march with neo-nazi doest not means you necessarily are a neo-nazi.

Good read, all in all. I'm glad I had to read all this positive stuff.

Given he lives in Uruguay, are you SURE you're thinking of Pundit appearing in a photo or video actually with a neo-nazi or klan member?
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Here is what I can say for certain: he called a white supremecist a hero on his blog.

yes yes I know yes he claims he said it was before we knew the man at Berkeley be a white supremecist.

The allegation was he appeared WITH a neo-nazi or KKK member in person. I am asking about that allegation. It implies a lot - including that a KKK member might be in Uruguay? Though from the new context I suspect VinceGetorix didn't mean to imply it was in-person. Though "in pictures and/or a video" certainly would normally imply to a reasonable reader he meant in-person. Like if I say I have a picture of you with President Trump, most people are not going to assume there is a picture of a screen shot of you in a video alone with a separate companion picture of President Trump who isn't actually with you at all.

EDIT - No, VinceGetorix doubled down on saying the "neo-nazi just happened to be there next to him" in the context of a photo or video, and that he was in some way marching with him? Which...yeah. Did that happen? When has Pundit left Uruguay?
 
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The allegation was he appeared WITH a neo-nazi or KKK member in person. I am asking about that allegation. It implies a lot - including that a KKK member might be in Uruguay?
I’m aware of what the allegation was.

This is why I qualified my statement with here is what I do know.
 


Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Given he lives in Uruguay, are you SURE you're thinking of Pundit appearing in a photo or video actually with a neo-nazi or klan member?
oh, it might have been one of its fellow journalist from its blog, the whole thing was pretty chaotic, and IIRC nearly at the same time as the Zak S allegations and all that. There was a lot of things being circulated and Pundit posted a few entries to clarify his take on what happened Charlottesville.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
oh, it might have been one of its fellow journalist from its blog, the whole thing was pretty chaotic, and IIRC nearly at the same time as the Zak S allegations and all that. There was a lot of things being circulated and Pundit posted a few entries to clarify his take on what happened Charlottesville.

Right. Sent you a PM.
 

pumasleeve

Explorer
Where you have arguably the first wotc adventure product that is geared towards roleplayers over adventure gamers (discouraging combat encounters), combined with the fact that "edition wars" or just discussions (arguments) over how to play the game have begun to become too interwoven with social/political issues- I find the inclusion of the grumpy clown to be more than a good hearted jest. The reasons for this have been laid out on this thread in detail already so I wont cover it all again.

As an adventure gamer, I actually welcome the addition of this type of product to meet the needs of different types of gamers, and who knows? if i found the right group of roleplayers i might have fun with it myself. But with an us vs them mentality, that is too common everywhere these days, this is less likely to happen. And if I found the clown to be offensive- well I dont have the right to not be offended, nor would i want that right.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Here is what I can say for certain: he called a white supremecist a hero on his blog.

yes yes I know yes he claims he said it was before we knew the man at Berkeley be a white supremecist. But, fun fact, he knew full well that the person MAY be a white supremecist when he wrote it, acknowledged he wasn’t sure, but felt comfortable enough to take the stance of “that person is a hero regardless” because he was angry that the woman came looking for violence against nazis.

He points out as evidence that she deserved being punched because on her Facebook she came looking for 100 nazi scalps to a “free speech event”. Note that in his addendum, he removes the word Nazis from her quote, likely to maintain that he was right to condemn her.

He calls himself a journalist (see: blog) but couldn’t wait to give his public opinion before the research was done on the white supremecist. Yeah. Like any good journalist.

She attempted violence against a white supremecist, someone he claims to hate and distance himself from, but doubles down on she deserved being hit by him because…she did exactly what she said she was going to do and went after a white supremecist.

There’s no way around it. He lauded a white supremecist. He later defended a white supremecist. He condemned someone taking action against one. He later doubled down on that same condemnation claiming there was no way for her to know that man was a white supremecist.

Mmmhm. I mean HE knew the dude could be one and admitted as such and he wasn’t even AT the event, but ok sure there’s No WaY sHe CoUlD hAvE mOrE iNfOrMaTiOn ThAn He. Mmhm. Probably cause he’s a journalist.


Whatever. He can say he condemns those types of people (white supremecist) all he wants. And maybe he believes that’s true. Certainly his defenders believe it to be true.

But he will happy cheer when an anti-nazi is punched in the face for confronting a white supremecist and he will march alongside a neo nazi, just as long as the nazi doesn’t ask him to do nazi things.

one thing I want clear: this is all information from his blog. This isn’t me regurgitating someone else’s interpretation as fact. These are his words and his actions alone
Also, his site has a ton of white supremacists/nationalists on it. If he doesn't support white supremacy, why does he allow them on his site?
 

Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
Also, his site has a ton of white supremacists/nationalists on it. If he doesn't support white supremacy, why does he allow them on his site?

Right. Tonight I saw a concerning number of posts supporting things I though were illegal. Pundit claims he's no white nationalist nor nazi sympathizer, though. I might have him confused with another member of the his forum. And I would tend to believe him because he himself do not cover often the racial issues of America. He's still a alt-right supporter with a vested interest in american society and, as a non-american, his views are really...nasty...to say the least.
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Also, his site has a ton of white supremacists/nationalists on it. If he doesn't support white supremacy, why does he allow them on his site?

To be fair, the only known white supremacist that was even raised as a topic on his site (which was some Euro RPG that promotes white supremacy), he banned the topic entirely and threatened to ban the next person who raised that topic. He was pretty outspoken about it too.
 

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