D&D General Thaco the angry clown... really?

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm just pointing out a behavior that, while directed at a group of people I'm not part of, reeks of petty hostility to me.

Such as WotC writers?

 

[Tinker-TDC]

I assumed "thack-o," at least in this case because then it's pronounced like whacko which sounds like a clown name.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

 

[Bill Zebub]

Actually, I believe the "0" at the end is supposed to be the Greek letter Theta. So it's pronounced "Thakth".

So really WotC is mocking saxophone players with lisps, not grognards. It's outrageously insensitive.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't have much of an issue with THAC0 the clown; I get the joke and am not worked up over it at all. But there is an undercurrent of ageism that crops up every once in a while. I'm not talking just about this scenario, but other ones that come up every so often. The term "grognard" used as a pejorative, or complaints how older gamers are all the same and refuse to accept evolutions in the game, or how older gamers are trying to keep younger players from having fun, or all of us lumped into the same category because an older gamer here or there says something really dumb, etc. And by and large, these comments are typically accepted without being called out. At times, it feels like it's the last demographic that it's OK to make fun of.

Which always surprises me a bit, because many times it's by folks who frequently vocally champion how diversity and inclusiveness are important. I really have no interest in arguing "no it's not!" type of responses. These are just observations I and others have made. I'm not all up in arms about it, or throwing a fit, or any of that. I recall being younger and getting upset about how the older generation was never taking us seriously or dismissing us, so I get it. But it doesn't make it right, to stereotype others just because of personal experiences with a few. That's not OK with any demographic (as a veteran, I deal with this a lot with my veteran friends who were overseas, and their views on Muslims because of how they personally were treated in their personal experiences, and how that doesn't make it OK to make generalizations based on those experiences).

I suppose I'd like for us as a community to try to be more aware of it. Just replace the age with any other protected class and see if it sounds OK to post with that replacement. If not, probably not OK to say it in regards to age.

That's all.

 

[embee]

It’s pronounced Thayk-zero guys

tuh-HAK-nil

 

[DarkCrisis]

I don't have much of an issue with THAC0 the clown; I get the joke and am not worked up over it at all. But there is an undercurrent of ageism that crops up every once in a while. I'm not talking just about this scenario, but other ones that come up every so often. The term "grognard" used as a pejorative, or complaints how older gamers are all the same and refuse to accept evolutions in the game, or how older gamers are trying to keep younger players from having fun, or all of us lumped into the same category because an older gamer here or there says something really dumb, etc. And by and large, these comments are typically accepted without being called out. At times, it feels like it's the last demographic that it's OK to make fun of.

Which always surprises me a bit, because many times it's by folks who frequently vocally champion how diversity and inclusiveness are important. I really have no interest in arguing "no it's not!" type of responses. These are just observations I and others have made. I'm not all up in arms about it, or throwing a fit, or any of that. I recall being younger and getting upset about how the older generation was never taking us seriously or dismissing us, so I get it. But it doesn't make it right, to stereotype others just because of personal experiences with a few. That's not OK with any demographic (as a veteran, I deal with this a lot with my veteran friends who were overseas, and their views on Muslims because of how they personally were treated in their personal experiences, and how that doesn't make it OK to make generalizations based on those experiences).

I suppose I'd like for us as a community to try to be more aware of it. Just replace the age with any other protected class and see if it sounds OK to post with that replacement. If not, probably not OK to say it in regards to age.

That's all.

Haunting twitter, I've seen just as many toxic posts from old players as I have from new players about who is rightly playing the game and both had a tendency to gatekeep. Especially when the "New TSR" thing popped up.

You can still it even today with the new Critical Role book announcement. Jerks on both sides tell the other side how wrong they are.

That's why I think the Thaco clown joke is just added logs to a fire that it didn't need to.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Haunting twitter, I've seen just as many toxic posts from old players as I have from new players about who is rightly playing the game and both had a tendency to gatekeep. Especially when the "New TSR" thing popped up.

You can still it even today with the new Critical Role book announcement. Jerks on both sides tell the other side how wrong they are.

That's why I think the Thaco clown joke is just added logs to a fire that it didn't need to.

A jerk old player was mostly likely a jerk young player once; there's certainly no monopoly on bad behavior based on age. I'm just saying that we as a community on these boards are really, really good at calling out non-inclusive behavior. Except ageism, unless it's really blatant. And I'd like us to try to be more aware of it, and try to avoid "I'm not offended, so no one else should either" type of responses. Or pejoratives based on age. Or stereotypes. Those wouldn't be acceptable with any other demographic, and I think we can do better.

 

[Umbran]

Ahhh....noooo. It's not punching up. At all. It's punching down. The writers are in a privileged position that none of the gatekeeping grogs they're punching have.

Mod Note:
This is an abuse of the concept of punching up and down. It is like saying Statler and Waldorf are "punching up" at Fozzie Bear because they don't have influence over the content of Fozzie's act. No, they are economically, socially (an indeed physically) above Fozzie, and are punching down at the lovable Muppet.

The terms are largely intended in terms of general sociopolitical and economic context. Those "gatekeeping grogs" are not, in general, disadvantaged with respect to the game designers.

Please don't abuse the terminology in this way - doing so obfuscates real issues.

 

[Lanefan]

As a long-time veteran of the game I've no issue at all with Thaco the Clown, and in fact think they missed an opportunity by not calling it "Thaco the Wacko" right out of the gate.