the Jester
Legend
I just hope they also ditch the "most maps are made of Dungeon Tiles" format. Generally, WotC puts out awesome maps- when they bother to make new ones. Tile-built maps straight up suck.
Thank Goodness: Moving away from the Delve format
- Thread starter Obryn
- Start date
Zaran
Adventurer
I have one other gripe about the current format. I much rather they give us a blank map than show the initial placement of the monsters. Not only does this make it difficult for me to use the picture online but those white circles sometimes cover up the terrain. I spend a great deal of time trying to edit out the circles or redoing the whole map because of this. Granted this isn't much of a problem with those who play around the table unless they want to print up the pictures and use them in lieu of tiles. I think most GMs would have the savy enough to place monsters given the tactics section of each encounter that they don't have to place those white circles all over.
I am cautious optimistic. I don't really understand what he means about the "think black line" and will and won't be included.
When running an encounter, the delve format is so awesome. But, I have a hard time understanding what the adventure is about. I'm currently DMing Revenge of the Giants and really have a hard time keeping track of the plot in each area. For instance, I think I found a contradiction between the summary material and the actual encounter material... but maybe I'm wrong because I don't really understand the adventure. This is what needs to be fixed...
When running an encounter, the delve format is so awesome. But, I have a hard time understanding what the adventure is about. I'm currently DMing Revenge of the Giants and really have a hard time keeping track of the plot in each area. For instance, I think I found a contradiction between the summary material and the actual encounter material... but maybe I'm wrong because I don't really understand the adventure. This is what needs to be fixed...
d2OKC
Explorer
I'm a pretty big fan of the Delve Format, but that's probably because I use almost zero pre-gen stuff. I like to organize my own encounters that I've come up with in the delve format, because it is handy to have everything all in one place, but since it is all homebrew, I don't have the problem of losing track of story, NPCs, etc. I like it on most of their stuff, to be perfectly honest. Though, adding in some variety is always a good thing. Maybe they'll hit on something more efficient.
I guess my big problem is I get bored just reading walls of text, and I like maps, so I get a lot of those with the delves... shrug.
I guess my big problem is I get bored just reading walls of text, and I like maps, so I get a lot of those with the delves... shrug.
Most of my stuff is homebrew anymore (though I did have a SOW going for a while). Normally what I like to do is print the monsters out on the Monster Builder and then use those sheets, along with sheets for the PCs to track initiative. As such, its not always a huge deal for me where the encounters are listed in the adventure while I am running a session.
That being said, I agree that I hate having the encounter "delves" in the back of the adventure with the "story" in the front. Although I won't always go through the stat blocks line by line when reading an adventure prior to running it, I do like to look at the encounters as I go as it makes it a lot easier for me to get the feel of the adventure.
What I think would work is to simply put the encounter info in the same space as the room/location description. Furthermore, if they keep up to date on the online tools (realizing this hasn't happened yet), they can even get away with putting the stat blocks in only once then just referencing them later -- much like they do for random encounters in several of their adventures.
I do definitely agree with getting rid of starting positions for monsters though. To be honest, I rarely paid much attention to them as it is but would often change it anyway based on much attention the PCs had drawn to themselves during the adventure.
In sum, if this makes the adventures easier to read and run, then I am all for it.
That being said, I agree that I hate having the encounter "delves" in the back of the adventure with the "story" in the front. Although I won't always go through the stat blocks line by line when reading an adventure prior to running it, I do like to look at the encounters as I go as it makes it a lot easier for me to get the feel of the adventure.
What I think would work is to simply put the encounter info in the same space as the room/location description. Furthermore, if they keep up to date on the online tools (realizing this hasn't happened yet), they can even get away with putting the stat blocks in only once then just referencing them later -- much like they do for random encounters in several of their adventures.
I do definitely agree with getting rid of starting positions for monsters though. To be honest, I rarely paid much attention to them as it is but would often change it anyway based on much attention the PCs had drawn to themselves during the adventure.
In sum, if this makes the adventures easier to read and run, then I am all for it.
KidSnide
Adventurer
My stuff is mostly homebrew as well, but I'm totally thrilled to hear the end of the "all delve format" adventures. The delve format strongly encourages adventure design where each of the encounters has roughly the same level of complexity, discouraging the natural rhythm of trivial encounters, challenging-but-winnable encounters and seriously dangerous encounters that makes the game fun. Most of WotC's adventures read like nothing more than a series of combat encounters and skill challenges connected by a thin trail of story with little interactivity outside of the encounters themselves. Even when there is story (like the WoBS modules), it's hard to keep track of how the story connects to the combat encounter at the back of the module.
If I were designing a module, I would have some (downloadable - must be downloadable!) two-page spreads containing the common monsters in a section of a dungeon. Once that spread is available for reference, all the DM needs to run the encounters in that reference spread and the content for that encounter (context, story, developments, traps, one-off monsters and/or treasure, all as appropriate). Only important or special encounters would need a two-page spread of dedicated information.
-KS
If I were designing a module, I would have some (downloadable - must be downloadable!) two-page spreads containing the common monsters in a section of a dungeon. Once that spread is available for reference, all the DM needs to run the encounters in that reference spread and the content for that encounter (context, story, developments, traps, one-off monsters and/or treasure, all as appropriate). Only important or special encounters would need a two-page spread of dedicated information.
-KS
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I really VERY rarely use published adventures, but I think this is a good idea overall.
I'd note 2 things as well:
1) The last adventure published in Dungeon breaks from the delve format and is called out as an example, so it is worth checking that out if you have DDI. I'd note that it seems to save a bunch of page space, there are still stat blocks, maps, etc. (though this particular adventure only has general level maps, not mini-maps). In general it looks like the same sort of info is present as normal. It is all 'inline' instead of broken out to a separate encounters section.
2) They haven't committed to a specific replacement format. The example adventure is one possibility, and presumably their best cut at a new format, but they certainly could still evolve it further and nothing is cast in stone yet.
Now, lets see if they can work a bit more personality into some of these adventures and make a few other improvements. I'd love to see them ramp it up a notch for sure.
I'd note 2 things as well:
1) The last adventure published in Dungeon breaks from the delve format and is called out as an example, so it is worth checking that out if you have DDI. I'd note that it seems to save a bunch of page space, there are still stat blocks, maps, etc. (though this particular adventure only has general level maps, not mini-maps). In general it looks like the same sort of info is present as normal. It is all 'inline' instead of broken out to a separate encounters section.
2) They haven't committed to a specific replacement format. The example adventure is one possibility, and presumably their best cut at a new format, but they certainly could still evolve it further and nothing is cast in stone yet.
Now, lets see if they can work a bit more personality into some of these adventures and make a few other improvements. I'd love to see them ramp it up a notch for sure.
Colmarr
First Post
This is of some concern to me an an online DM, because it raises the spectre that I won't be able to use the printed maps for my game (because the resolution is too low to allow it to be magnified to usable size).
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