Thank you Pazio for your responses

satori01

First Post
I am offering my thanks to Pazio Publishing for responding to the concerns people have expressed. I also want to thank Mr Wilson for the revealing and frank information about the P&L situation that Dungeon/Poly are in.

Others may not agree, but I find it takes courage for the publishers to reveal such information without home court advantage per say, and not resort to general press release or editorial in a Pazio publication.

I am going to withold my opinion concering Dungeon/Poly as the debate has turned acrimonious, but as an "old time" gamer, I am consitently amazed at the level of interaction that occurs between
the producers of the rpg products and the customers that buy them.
 

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Interesting letter by Paizo. For me, neither Dragon nor Dungeon/Polyhedron alone give me enough of what I want at the price to justify purchase, so I get neither. Therefore I personally would support folding the 3 into 1 magazine that included D&D crunch & fluff, D&D scenarios, d20 system non-D&D stuff, and some (not too much) coverage of non-d20 system games, like Eden's Unisystem (Buffy, All Flesh Must Be Eaten etc) and the BRP system (Call of Cthulu, Runequest, et al). That's the RPG magazine I would buy.
 

Personally I really appreciate Paizo....firstly because they are frank with us and offer a level of interaction that you would be hard pressed to find between any other publisher and their following, and secondly because they are fighting a losing economic battle to hang on to something they and many of us actually care about....they seem to be a business who hasnt sold it's soul for the almighty dollar, and that is rare.

So Paizo if you read this, and it is quite possible you will, just know that not everyone is down on you . At least a few of us really appreciate what you are trying to accomplish, and I applaud your efforts.
 

I have multi-year subscriptions to both magazines and feel that my money is being well spent. Even one long adventure in Dungon is worth more than what I used to pay for several years ago, and the price compares favorably with adventures being released today.
 
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I've been having a problem with my Dragon sub renewal. I sent an email to Pierce Watters, the guy that handles these things for them and got a friendly response the same day. In fact, I've needed to email him 3 times and got same day response each time, and the last response wasn't even necessary.

Having had a similar problem with my Dragon sub 4 years ago with WotC, trying to do anything by email was laughable and getting it fixed over the phone was trying at best (not to mention that the person on the other side was rather rude).

Little things like that make a difference. So while I may think Dungeon needs to alter its course somewhat, I sure appreciate Paizo and everything they've done thus far. Thanks, guys.
 

Kudos to Paizo for the frank explanation of the reasons for the current state of the Dungeon.
I would, however, wish to give my oppinion as a long time reader of Dungeon as to its present and possible future use for me.

First of all, Polyhedron is entirely useless to me.
While I admit that in principle it would be possible to come up with the small d20 game that would appeal to me, fact is that that has not happened yet. I have not even been able to salvage a single piece of crunch from out of any of them for my dnd game and not for the lack of trying.
I understand that there are people who love "Poly" and who would hate to see it die but I do not see what that has to do with me and Dungeon. It very much feels like someone told me that from here on they will be attaching the 30 pages of "Maxim" to my "Economist" and charging me for it so that the "Maxim" does not have to fold. In a word I continue to value "Dungeon" by the same yardstick I always did and that is a number and quality of the adventures it contains.

Secondly, I do not care about colour. Actualy I do a bit: I have slight preference for the black and white print. In the black and white days maps were clearer and, to my mind at least, illustrations better. The interior of the magazine also had more dignified feel to it.

Thirdly and most importantly the quantity of the usefull text and particularly usefull text per dollar is on a steady downwards path.
In the late days of 2nd edittion (issue 75 for example - August/September 1999) dungeon had 70 pages of usefull text, that is adventures excluding letters, advertisments, subscription offers and other gunk. It also read very easily as all the gunk was concetrated either in the very front or the very back of the magazine. It also sold for very affordable $6.50 Canadian.
The modern day magazine (issues 98 and 99) sell for 10$ Canadian and have 45 and 40 pages of usefull text (adventures) respectively. In adition there is way more gunk in the middle of the magazine including the highly intrusive cardboard full page advertisement for the book club right in the middle of the adventure, practicaly impossible to rip out without ruining the magazine.
It should be noted that in the mean time Canadian dollar gained about 10% in value with respect to the American and that the inflation was significantly less then 5% anually for the entire period.

In other words, I am paying 40% more (inflation and exchange rate adjusted, 20% more for the american price) for the 40% less usefull content.

Now Dungeon was so staggeringly good magazine in '99 that even with this reduction by the factor of 2.3 in the price per content ratio it is still (marginaly) worthwile. The fact is however that it has hit the bottom of the worthwile bracket and is, with issue 99, starting to dip under it.

Now, it is possible that the WotC was losing money on Dungeon and that it was simply impossible to maintan that quality at that price (even adjusted for inflation) but it is kind of hard to believe that the drop by factor of 2.3 was needed.

What looks way more likely to me is that the series of decisions which all looked as a good idea at the time: Go with colour, add Polyhedron, add more advertisments etc... added up to increasing the production cost while detracting or not increasing the value of the magazine to the cumulative effect of virtualy destroying what used to be the best deal in gaming.

I suggest that going back to the scheme of '99 and before (Simplier binding, black and white, dump "Poly"...) is the way to preserve the magazine, otherwise I am affraid it is on its way to the vicious circle of declining readership and diminishing quality.
I, for one, who have missed only two issues since 1994, am not very far from giving up on it.
 
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Not this discussion ... AGAIN. :rolleyes:

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

As for me, I never find Dungeon of any use to me ... until last January, when they married a newly-formatted Polyhedron to it. Been buying a copy ever since, full price at my FLGS.

So I guess for those who find the new Polyhedron useless, it sucks to be you, because I'm loving it.
 

Getting back ON TOPIC...

I also want to throw in my kudos to Paizo for being so upfront - stuff like that is very, very rare from most kinds of businesses, and even if it's not what people want to hear, it's REALITY within the business of fantasy.

OFF-TOPIC #1
Having purchased a collection of 55-60 issues of Dungeon back issues from a prior gamer around a year ago, IMHO people have been looking at "old Dungeon" with seriously rose-colored glasses...

I whipped out some of the 1999 issues and have no idea where this "staggering good" description that bramadan claims them to be is coming from: it's still good stuff, in a "Dungeon" kind of way. To each their own, I guess.

OFF TOPIC #2
For all of the people who REALLY need to measure "price per content", "cents per page", etc. to get their "value" out of Dungeon or Dragon magazines...

I mean...really.

I have no qualms with people not buying something because they can't afford it, or it's no longer useful for them, or they don't like it.

However, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Don't bother trying to justify it by saying that the price per page went up 2 cents, inflation is a factor, currency changes, or other nonsense like that, because when it comes down to it, your talking about a few dollars a month. If that difference of $2-3 dollars have THAT much of an impact, well...maybe you'd need to forgo D&D magazines in general?
 

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