Or that it had to be able to do anything all the time on global levels.
So magic can do anything if you have enough umpf to command it, not that wizards can do anything at level 1.
Can a wizard conjure a boulder that he cannot move?
That Magic Feeling
- Thread starter Oni
- Start date
Or that it had to be able to do anything all the time on global levels.
So magic can do anything if you have enough umpf to command it, not that wizards can do anything at level 1.
Can a wizard conjure a boulder that he cannot move?
Calico_Jack73
First Post
I'd go with skill based casting. Specialists would get skill bonuses to their primary school and the adjacent schools but take penalties to the schools adjacent to their forbidden school. The DC would be based on Generalists though. A Generalist mage that has the maximum skill for his level (no stat adjustments) would have a base 50/50 chance to cast a spell of their highest level available. High stats and feats could improve that. The greater the difference between levels, the easier it is to cast. A 1st level mage trying to cast a 1st level spell would have a 50/50 chance to cast it while a 10th level mage casting the same spell should have maybe a 10 % chance of failing (2 in 20). This is all off-the-cuff so I haven't worked out the math but it would be something like that. Because of the chance of failure I'd remove casting limits per day. Yes, taking 20 will pretty much guarantee success but then again a wizard who can take his time casting should be able to cast whatever spell they like IMHO.
Silvercat Moonpaw
Adventurer
How "not free" are we talking?
As I see it there isn't enough fear built into spellcasting. I don't mean in terms of the spell driving you mad or anything because that should be determined by setting. I mean fear that your spells will run out soon. Even casting your first spell of the day should have behind it the expectation that it could be your last.
I suspect players would balk if they failed a save to keep casting. "Sorry, you're done for the day."
S. John Ross actually came up with an excellent alternative mechanic for spellcasting in GURPS, which typically used a standard spell-point ("mana") system. He called it Unlimited Mana:
Fantasy novels that feature such levels of power rarely have mages that get ``tired out'' by magic. Instead, extreme effects threaten the fabric of the universe, creating a situation in which wizards can create true miracles in times of need, but do not use their powers frivolously. When their companions ask for more magic, they will drone cryptically "To draw too deeply on my Gift can lead to madness and death. Do not demand of me what you do not comprehend."
Fantasy writers need character balance as much as GMs do. While it's exiting to establish that a sorcerer can wreak serious havoc when needed, it's boring to let him overshadow the rest of the characters. That cryptic doubletalk exists as a handy plot device, no less than the wizard himself.
This approach to magic has been left untouched in gaming, and for good reason. It's easy for a writer to create a wizard that will be prudent with his arcane wisdom. Trying to get an ambitious fantasy gamer (even a well-meaning one) to do the same is risky at best. GURPS has no such bounds, however. The magic system is flexible enough to permit Unlimited Mana that will balance in ANY fantasy campaign, even the lowest of "low fantasy!"
How does it work? Fantasy writers need character balance as much as GMs do. While it's exiting to establish that a sorcerer can wreak serious havoc when needed, it's boring to let him overshadow the rest of the characters. That cryptic doubletalk exists as a handy plot device, no less than the wizard himself.
This approach to magic has been left untouched in gaming, and for good reason. It's easy for a writer to create a wizard that will be prudent with his arcane wisdom. Trying to get an ambitious fantasy gamer (even a well-meaning one) to do the same is risky at best. GURPS has no such bounds, however. The magic system is flexible enough to permit Unlimited Mana that will balance in ANY fantasy campaign, even the lowest of "low fantasy!"
Every mage has a Threshold (Thresh) score -- this defines the safe limits of his magic. If his tally remains at or below his Thresh, everything is fine. If his tally exceed his Thresh, Bad Things can happen, and the mage must roll on the Calamity Table.
This turns ""Sorry, you're done for the day," into "Are you sure you want to do that?"
Scribble
First Post
I did something similar once way back in 2e... I gave the wizard the ability to cast extra spells, but when he did it damaged his CON score, and could pottentially kill him.
There was a con check involved too I think... I can't remember exactly what I did, or whether it actually ended up being used much if ever.
The trick is making the cost just high enough to worry the player, but not high enough to make casting a spell a clearly bad idea. The choice can't be a no-brainer, either for or against.
Silvercat Moonpaw
Adventurer
Like I said before, the "magic is a really bad thing to use" should be something kept in games or supplements designed for the types of fantasy that use it. Otherwise you've got a very large chunk of flavor worked into the mechanics of a generic system.
And what I was thinking of wouldn't be "Cast 1 spell and be done for the day" but "cast that spell now, when you could just as easily use non-spell means, and the next time you really need a spell you're going to find that you've come up short". Essentially it's like what D&D did, except D&D gave you too many spell slots too fast (i.e. you started with the whole lot at the beginning of the day) to strike any fear of running out until much later.
I'm not sure what you're saying. Simply that spellcasters should get fewer spells per day?
Fallen Seraph
First Post
Hmm... Personally for me, one thing I would like to see when it comes to full-time Spellcasters (like the Wizard and Sorcerer) is that they also have a number of non-magical options. So if we were say to take the 4e Power System for instance, they could have some Powers that don't have a magical connection, they certainly aren't amazing like Martial Powers but they serve their purpose.
Just to get away from the either Wizard does everything with his Spells, or the Wizard can only use a tiny little dagger or crossbow and does basically nothing with them.
I would like to see "Counters", so again using the Power system, your enemy uses a ability, it has say a Fire-keyword. You can counter said Power by using the Immediate-Effect that is recorded at the bottom of your Spells, the Counter in this case would be say a Spell with Cold-keyword.
I would keep what 4e is doing and divide up the Magic into various classes, so we don't have the Wizard that does everything. I quite like that we are as far as we know gonna get all the Wizard stuff into various classes, like; the Wizard, Illusion-clas (personally hoping it is based around Beguiler, my only spellcaster-class I personally used), Necromancer, etc.
This is more a pet-peeve and something I wouldn't actually see in D&D since it goes against lots of D&Dism. But the overabundance of elemental magic I would like to see decreased.
I think specific Spells, keywords, picking your Spells, etc. are very D&D things. So while having a freeform magic system be quite cool, it wouldn't fit the D&D feel.
Just to get away from the either Wizard does everything with his Spells, or the Wizard can only use a tiny little dagger or crossbow and does basically nothing with them.
I would like to see "Counters", so again using the Power system, your enemy uses a ability, it has say a Fire-keyword. You can counter said Power by using the Immediate-Effect that is recorded at the bottom of your Spells, the Counter in this case would be say a Spell with Cold-keyword.
I would keep what 4e is doing and divide up the Magic into various classes, so we don't have the Wizard that does everything. I quite like that we are as far as we know gonna get all the Wizard stuff into various classes, like; the Wizard, Illusion-clas (personally hoping it is based around Beguiler, my only spellcaster-class I personally used), Necromancer, etc.
This is more a pet-peeve and something I wouldn't actually see in D&D since it goes against lots of D&Dism. But the overabundance of elemental magic I would like to see decreased.
I think specific Spells, keywords, picking your Spells, etc. are very D&D things. So while having a freeform magic system be quite cool, it wouldn't fit the D&D feel.
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