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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8245504" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>I was one of the proponents of living world in that thread: to be clear, at least for me, I never used immersion, and while I was involved in the discussion of association/dissociation, I only ever said it hit on something that resonated for people who were not satisfied with changes in 4E. For me, immersion as a concept is somewhat useful but often taken too seriously or too much to an extreme. I think with living world, your are trying to create a sense of an external place to the PCs. And that is done in part by only allowing them to impact the world through their PCs, but there are whole styles of living world where no distinction is made between say character knowledge and player knowledge: so character's point of view, strictly speaking, isn't the hard limit. I think what it is is an attempt to model a world, using a variety of methods, with a focus on treating moving parts in a setting (NPCs, faction, historical forces, as living, and having a kind of will of their own like PCs do). For me personally, when I role-play, the sense that I am there is definitely the thing that makes the activity different from other media (i get to choose what my character tries to do, and there is a real sense of interaction with a place). But sense isn't dependent on living world or sandbox. I can have that sense in a structured investigation mystery adventure, in a dungeon crawl with things pinned to specific location, in an adventure path (though clearly in the latter, my sense of total freedom might be more constrained by the conceits of the adventure structure). That said, immersion is definitely a goal I see among a lot of living world sandbox people. Usually they mean something like having to interact with the world through their character. Some people mean it to be getting deep into character, and intuiting their character's feelings and thoughts about things. And some folk get very specific and rigid about it. Myself, I don't act out in a performative way with my characters that much (and if I do it is hammy and fun), I am not there to feel what my character is feeling or achieve a high level of play. It is a game, I am there to enjoy it, and one of the things I enjoy is the sense that I am on the ground making choices that matter. I would call that experience immersion, but you can call lots of experiences immersion, and breaking someone's immersion isn't a grave sin or anything (getting upset because your immersion is disrupted, to me, is the sign of a problem player)</p></blockquote><p></p>

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