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<blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 8254876" data-attributes="member: 85870">Right, of course, it's the fault of the theory that problems occurred.&nbsp; It couldn't possibly have been that the theories (however incomplete and imperfect) brought about a different level of cognitive awareness for some participants, who realized they were dissatisfied with what was happening in their RPG play. Even if the theories (however incomplete and imperfect) happened to give those participants new ways to think about and express their experiences, far better that we avoid &quot;damaging&quot; and &quot;destroying&quot; play groups. Game theory is simply too dangerous to the health of our hobby to risk any discussion of the matter. Participants in RPG play who are uneasy and dissatisfied, but don't know why, should just soldier on blindly, because the GM is always right, dammit!Apropos to the topic at hand, however, it's a bit curious how this discussion has veered into the topic of the assumed role(s) of the GM / GM authority on group dynamics. While interesting, I'm wondering what the connection is to exploring the dynamics of immersion / player stance.Is there some connecting thread that I missed? I'll admit that I skipped 5-6 pages of conversation. I also continue to sense a strong sentiment, both here and in the &quot;GM's Notes&quot; thread, that proponents of &quot;living world&quot; play believe their agenda/playstyle is superior to achieve immersion. But I've still yet to hear a convincing argument how and why this is the case. What is so germane and important about the &quot;living world&quot; playstyle to achieve immersion?One hypothesis, I suppose, is that by limiting player views/inputs to &quot;only be from within the character,&quot; it naturally/necessarily forces the player to adopt certain mental models/tactics/frames within which to imagine the shared fiction. Since the player can't have input into the scene- or historical-level aspects of the fiction, there's little reason for them to step outside character view when attempting to place their character in the fiction.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="innerdude, post: 8254876, member: 85870"] Right, of course, it's the fault of the [I]theory[/I] that problems occurred. It couldn't possibly have been that the theories (however incomplete and imperfect) brought about a different level of cognitive awareness for some participants, who realized they were dissatisfied with what was happening in their RPG play. Even if the theories (however incomplete and imperfect) happened to give those participants new ways to think about and express their experiences, far better that we avoid "damaging" and "destroying" play groups. Game theory is simply too dangerous to the health of our hobby to risk any discussion of the matter. Participants in RPG play who are uneasy and dissatisfied, but don't know why, should just soldier on blindly, because the GM is always right, dammit! Apropos to the topic at hand, however, it's a bit curious how this discussion has veered into the topic of the assumed role(s) of the GM / GM authority on group dynamics. While interesting, I'm wondering what the connection is to exploring the dynamics of immersion / player stance. Is there some connecting thread that I missed? I'll admit that I skipped 5-6 pages of conversation. I also continue to sense a strong sentiment, both here and in the "GM's Notes" thread, that proponents of "living world" play believe their agenda/playstyle is superior to achieve immersion. But I've still yet to hear a convincing argument how and why this is the case. What is so germane and important about the "living world" playstyle to achieve immersion? One hypothesis, I suppose, is that by limiting player views/inputs to "only be from within the character," it naturally/necessarily forces the player to adopt certain mental models/tactics/frames within which to imagine the shared fiction. Since the player can't have input into the scene- or historical-level aspects of the fiction, there's little reason for them to step outside character view when attempting to place their character in the fiction. [/QUOTE]

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