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<blockquote data-quote="AtomicPope" data-source="post: 4402569" data-attributes="member: 64790">I've seen the 15 minute work day as far back as 1st edition.&nbsp; It became obvious after my group discovered WHFRP, which uses a points-based magic system.&nbsp; The 15 minute work day is only a problem at lower levels in previous editions.&nbsp; The spell casters (especially healers) have access to less than 5 effective combat spells over the course of an entire day.&nbsp; Furthermore, these spells must share alotted space with utility and support spells.&nbsp; When a players chooses Tenser's Floating Disk it means they have one less Burning Hands, which in turn shortens the work day.&nbsp;At 1st through 3rd level a cleric will quickly burn through their spells, not because they're stupid (which is always the go-to-answer for the counter argument) but because monsters are much deadlier to lower level characters in 1-3e.&nbsp; PC's need instant healing and clerics are the one place to get it.&nbsp;4e resolves the about issues concerning the 15 minute work day in a number of ways:1) Healing Surges - They allow a party to press onward without relying on the ubiquitous Wand of CLW or Draining the resources of a single party member (i.e. cleric).2) Encounter Powers - Repleneshing medium grade powers allows characters to remain competative after any combat.&nbsp; The replenishment of healing abilities that scale appropriate to the target, rather than the caster, supports this.3) Utility Powers and Rituals - Separating the Utility powers and other assorted spells keeps the player from sharing their combat pool with &quot;one shot&quot; spells.&nbsp; The most common factor in the 15min work day is when the PC's are faced with a problem and the only solution is rest and memorize a new spell.&nbsp;&nbsp;I've seen the 15 minute work day end abruptly in 4e after two sessions.&nbsp; The players were still 1st level.&nbsp; They've managed to find what looked like an ancient tomb.&nbsp; The undead guards attacked in full force in a massive battle (they're still 1st level at this point).&nbsp; Dailies were expended, a character had died, and everyone was beat down.&nbsp; I asked the players if they wanted to head back or continue.&nbsp; At first they said they needed to rest up, but after a 5 minute break they got their encounter powers back, spent a few healing surges and were ready to press on.&nbsp; And press on they did.&nbsp; I expected them to go back, but it makes a certain amount of sense to continue.&nbsp; They still have their At Will powers and Encounter powers.&nbsp; The Cleric could still heal and no one was out of surges.&nbsp; A few characters had spent their Dailies but it's not the end of the world.&nbsp; As the guy playing the Wizard said, &quot;Unlike 3rd Edition, I'll never have to use a crossbow again.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AtomicPope, post: 4402569, member: 64790"] I've seen the 15 minute work day as far back as 1st edition. It became obvious after my group discovered WHFRP, which uses a points-based magic system. The 15 minute work day is only a problem at lower levels in previous editions. The spell casters (especially healers) have access to less than 5 effective combat spells over the course of an entire day. Furthermore, these spells must share alotted space with utility and support spells. When a players chooses Tenser's Floating Disk it means they have one less Burning Hands, which in turn shortens the work day. At 1st through 3rd level a cleric will quickly burn through their spells, not because they're stupid (which is always the go-to-answer for the counter argument) but because monsters are much deadlier to lower level characters in 1-3e. PC's need instant healing and clerics are the one place to get it. 4e resolves the about issues concerning the 15 minute work day in a number of ways: 1) Healing Surges - They allow a party to press onward without relying on the ubiquitous Wand of CLW or Draining the resources of a single party member (i.e. cleric). 2) Encounter Powers - Repleneshing medium grade powers allows characters to remain competative after any combat. The replenishment of healing abilities that scale appropriate to the target, rather than the caster, supports this. 3) Utility Powers and Rituals - Separating the Utility powers and other assorted spells keeps the player from sharing their combat pool with "one shot" spells. The most common factor in the 15min work day is when the PC's are faced with a problem and the only solution is rest and memorize a new spell. I've seen the 15 minute work day end abruptly in 4e after two sessions. The players were still 1st level. They've managed to find what looked like an ancient tomb. The undead guards attacked in full force in a massive battle (they're still 1st level at this point). Dailies were expended, a character had died, and everyone was beat down. I asked the players if they wanted to head back or continue. At first they said they needed to rest up, but after a 5 minute break they got their encounter powers back, spent a few healing surges and were ready to press on. And press on they did. I expected them to go back, but it makes a certain amount of sense to continue. They still have their At Will powers and Encounter powers. The Cleric could still heal and no one was out of surges. A few characters had spent their Dailies but it's not the end of the world. As the guy playing the Wizard said, "Unlike 3rd Edition, I'll never have to use a crossbow again." [/QUOTE]

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