The 3 sectional staff

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was watching Fight Science the other day, and noticed that they described a martial artist with a 3 sectional staff controlling a 40' diameter circle- what would be termed in D&D the weapon's "threatened area."- twice the diameter of the circle threatened by the bo-stick wielder.

Part of the area was the martial artist's arm length, as well as her swaying motion, but the rest was the weapon itself.

The martial artist using it was a woman, about 5'6" tall or so, and her version of it had wood sections between 2'6"-3' long (7'6"-9' in length) plus chain sections at least 6" long, for an overall length between 8'6"-10'.

Taken together, this sounds like a reach weapon (at least in the hands of a proficient wielder).

So I looked up the weapon in OA. No reach.

Do you think it would be unbalancing for the weapon to have reach in the game? If so, what else needs to be done to keep the weapon balanced for the game.

 

[Nifft]

For any new Exotic weapon, ask yourself this question: is it better than a spiked chain?

If it's not better than a spiked chain, go for it!

If it is better, nerf it.

All weapons must be worse than the spiked chain. (Ever since WotC corporate HQ moved to Jangling Hiter... must be a neighborhood thing.)

Cheers, -- N

PS: What are the actual 3-section staff stats that you would use? I don't have that book.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

According to OA, they are 2 handed exotic weapons that do 1d8 x3 bludgeoning. They weigh 8lbs.

There may be different stats in Rokugan or other books.

 

[Nifft]

Two-handed, exotic, 1d8 20/x3, bludgeoning. Hmm. No other bonus? Nothing about tripping, disarming, or whatever? Finesse-able?

I'd be leery of granting it a bigger attack die and crit multiplier than a nunchaku or a quarterstaff.


Here's a version I'd be comfortable with:

Three-Section Staff: Two-handed, exotic, bludgeoning, reach - 1d6 (medium), 20/x2
Like a spiked chain, you can attack those 5 ft away as well as those 10 ft. away.
This weapon grants you a +2 bonus on Disarm checks.
This is a special Monk weapon, but Monks do not automatically gain proficiency with it -- they must take the exotic weapon feat just like everyone else.


What do you think?
Cheers, -- N

 

[the Jester]

Check this out: 3 Piece Staff fight

 

[Nifft]

Check this out: 3 Piece Staff fight

Nice video. Looks like a three-section staff can be used as a double weapon, too. Maybe that in place of the +2 to Disarm?

Thanks, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No other bonus? Nothing about tripping, disarming, or whatever? Finesse-able?

I'd be leery of granting it a bigger attack die and crit multiplier than a nunchaku or a quarterstaff.

I think they gave it 1d8 x3 because it is much more massive than nunchaku- a 8lbs as opposed to 2lbs- and when you get that much mass swinging in a 40' diameter circle, that tip is moving very fast. That extra mass and speed would convert into harder hits.

In fact, this is also shown in the Fight Science show- it did actually deliver more forceful blows than nunchaku or bo-sticks.

So, I think the 1d8 is justified...though I'm not sure about the x3 Crit mod. That is a rare stat among bludgeoning weapons.

The show also showed the downside to flexible weapons- all of them- that was shown in the motion-capture but is not in the game: control. Even in the hands of extremely well trained martial artists, the flexible weapons lost both head speed (the source of their damage) and control (most of the practitioners were, in fact, struck by their own weapons after landing a successful blow). The reflective strikes were inconseqentially weak, but it still took time (though not much) for the martial artists to get the weapons back up to speed in a striking position.

Perhaps a cumulative negative to-hit modifier for subseqent blows would be in order? (Again, for all flexible weapons.)

And no, there are no other special things about it listed in OA- no finesse, no trips or disarms, no reach, no 2wf- which seems a bit off given that video so nicely supplied by the Jester.

From what I saw, it should have reach (& attack adjacent critters) and be usable with 2wf (though not in the same round), and should be allowed to trip & disarm like flails. With its mass, I don't think I'd make it finessable, and I'd probably drop its crit to x2.

Compared to the Greatspear (2d6 19-20x2, reach, throwable), I think that's not too bad.

Compared to the Spiked Chain, it loses finessability and does slightly less damage- avg 4.5 as opposed to 5.

(and of course, that cumulative negative modifier mentioned above would apply both to it and the spiked chain...)

This is a special Monk weapon, but Monks do not automatically gain proficiency with it -- they must take the exotic weapon feat just like everyone else.

Nifft- that was one thing I missed in my original post- OA is unclear as to proficiency. As it stands, it is a special Monk weapon, but the Monk must still burn the feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency: 3 Sectional Staff to be proficient with it.

I just realized that much of the above may have changed in the OA 3.5 update in Dragon...I'll have to check that out.

I just checked- no changes to the 3 Section Staff in either the Dragon 3.5 update or in the Errata, and its not included in the Rokugan books either.