The $40 mark is broken

[Storminator]

That's my point. Comparing movies costs to RPG book costs is a waste of time. It's all about the particulars of each business, not a simple equation of man-hours-enjoyment-time/cost.

If enough people are willing to pay $45, then the price is good. It has nothing to do with the cost of movies, that just confuses the issue unnecessarily. It's a red herring. Stick with the basics of production costs, quality, supply, demand, etc. (which you are doing, btw).
<SNIP>

Basing pricing on costs and supply and demand is very valid if you're a publishing company, but not a very useful measure as a consumer.

Consumers look at opportunity costs: what would I have bought with this money instead? So a movie is a very good comparison, if you're the sort that likes to go to movies. I'd rather go out to dinner, so I'd likely compare an rpg book to a night out (no dishes to clean up! yay!). Usually, tho, the best comparison is another rpg book.

PS

 

[kenjib]

Basing pricing on costs and supply and demand is very valid if you're a publishing company, but not a very useful measure as a consumer.

Consumers look at opportunity costs: what would I have bought with this money instead? So a movie is a very good comparison, if you're the sort that likes to go to movies. I'd rather go out to dinner, so I'd likely compare an rpg book to a night out (no dishes to clean up! yay!). Usually, tho, the best comparison is another rpg book.

PS

I don't think we are in disagreement. You can compare rpg book costs to other things on a person by person basis, sure. As a general rule, though, it's meaningless to compare it to one specific thing, like movies, because the valuation is completely subjective from person to person. I very rarely go to movies, myself. Comparisons to movie costs mean very little to me. Like you say, comparison to other rpg products means much more.

More importantly, the logic always implied nearly without fail is that a pure valuation in terms of hours of usage is the only factor by which to compare. Like you said, you like to eat out because you don't have to do dishes. There's no accounting for things like this in a strict man-hours evaluation. Is one hour of eating out the same value as one hour of rpg playing? Obviously not, as they are priced quite differently on a strictly man-hour basis. They should be because you are not getting the same types of benefits. So why bother to compare and say that you get more man-hours per dollar out of rpgs versus certain other forms of entertainment? Such a comparison is meaningless and, ultimately, misleading.

Well, that was my comparison- and I did not suggest it was a valid way to price an item.

I said it was how I determined how much I would spend on a rpg book.

SD

Point taken, so you were applying this principle only to yourself. That's fine. I have noticed in the past that people like to generalize this to everyone though and use it as a justification for inflating rpg book prices. I presumed you were doing the same. Sorry for reading more into your post than you intended.

 

[trancejeremy]

In terms of page count, T20 is a pretty good deal (especially since some of the pages are in color). Plus, when I got mine, new copies were selling for around $30 on ebay.

I don't mind the high priced huge books. It's the high priced small books which irk me. $25 for 96 page books? Ack.

I don't know why AEG does that, yet their new "Toolkit" book, is twice the size, and only $26.95.

 

[haiiro]

I haven't seen the Traveller book, but are there any other hardback RPGs out there with a page count equal to or larger that you know of (and if so, how much are they)?

Well, Shootingiron's 4th Edition Talislanta hardcover is 502 pages, B&W, and costs $37.95. That's an amazing value, even considering that the bulk of the material (as I understand it) is reworked or re-presented older material -- i.e., it's just a new edition, not a new game. Then again, so is T20 to a certain extent.

The 5th Edition Hero System hardcover is 384 pages, B&W, and runs $39.95. I don't know how much it varies from 1st-4th Edition, but it's certainly an imposing volume.

In softcovers, two Call of Cthulhu products jump to mind: the Beyond the Mountains of Madness campaign book (440 pages, B&W, $39.95) and Delta Green: Countdown (424 pages, B&W, $44.95). Both are an amazing value -- BtMoM is a huge campaign (apparently requiring around a year of regular gaming to complete), and DG:C jams so much info between its covers that it compares favorably to buying three or four smaller books. Countdown is the most expensive softcover gaming book I've ever seen, and I don't consider it overpriced.

 

[Wayside]

Greed and limp morals encourage the pirating of $5 books.
People that pirate books will pirate them regardless of price.

Patrick Y.

There's no right answer here. Some people will pirate anyway and some won't. Some people only pirate 15$ cd's, and buy anything they can get for, say, $9 or less. And in the indie music scene plenty of people buy ALL the cd's of their favorite bands just to support them. Attitudes will vary with RPG's too.

I realize you're a publisher but saying 'greed and limp morals' are the cause of pirating is a totally b.s. blanket statement. Someone else could say that 'greed and limp morals' are the cause of capitalism, or of the U. S. for that matter. Examine where your morals come from before you decide they are the be-all and end-all of morality.

The attitude of most people who've spoken up here is that pirates will pirate no matter what, but in my experience that is just wrong. Most pirating is done by highschool kids with no money anyway, and I could list at least 50 different views on when to pirate and when not to that friends of mine have (none of whom, by the way, pirate rpg's at all, because they are aware of the how tough it is for you guys to make a living; but we all pirate other things for a HUGE number of different reasons, none of which fall under the heading of 'greed' or 'limp morals'.)

 

[buzz]

I realize you're a publisher but saying 'greed and limp morals' are the cause of pirating is a totally b.s. blanket statement. Someone else could say that 'greed and limp morals' are the cause of capitalism, or of the U. S. for that matter. Examine where your morals come from before you decide they are the be-all and end-all of morality.

Oh, GEEZ...

 

[Starman]

You bet your sweet bippy!

ROFL I haven't heard that in a long time.

I had no problem with the price of T20. I would start to have trouble justifying the purchase of a role-playing book if it was over $50. Though I would certainly consider buying the oft-mentioned, mythical $100 box set campaign that included miniatures, maps, books, yadda yadda.

Starman

 

[EricNoah]

Folks, the ins and outs and whys and wherefores of online piracy have been beaten to death and into undeath around here as of late, and it never goes anywhere but downhill. I know it's hard not to mention in the context of RPG prices but please let's try to keep on topic.

 

[megamania]

Heh, I always thought a majority of rpg books are underpriced. When I compare the amount of pleasure I get out of an rpg for a dollar versus what I get from a puter game or movie ticket, I am willing to shell out more dollars for a quality book.

SD

quiet- don't tell the publishers!


45 is tough. It would have to be an exceptional book. I've gone to 40 twice. Both times for quality product but one I haven't used yet which makes me hesitant to spend so much again.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I just don't understand the complaints about $45 hardcover books that weigh in at 448 pages. If you're complaining about that, isn't the $20 softcover book that has 96 pages a much worse 'ripoff'?