The Barbarian as Swashbuckler

[LostSoul]

Thinking out loud...

Barbarians would make a great swashbuckling class if you tweak them just a little bit. They have the high hit points, which represent masterful parrying, etc. They have light armour, fast movement, and uncanny dodge.

Switch a few class skills around - give them Perform and Bluff (and maybe Sense Motive) and take away Listen, Wilderness Lore, and Swim; and change Rage into "Swashbucking Flair" that increases Dex instead of Str.

Your high Hit Points represent your parrying skill; the Con increase that you get while in your Flair means that blows that otherwise would have knocked you down are now just "flesh wounds".

 

[Khaalis]

I assume you are talking about using the Barbarian class as a Base for a Swashbuckling class, not giving these abilities and calling it a "Barbarian". Please?

See my grief with Barbarians at: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42235

Now - with that said...


Technically yes the Barbarian template could work for a Swashbuckling style class with a few exceptions.

Personally I prefer Swashbuckling classes that center more on defense. The idea is based off the fighting style of the "fighting circle" or "fencing circle" and mastering your motion in that circle so as not to get hit. Along that vein I prefer skills that prevent you from taking Hit Point damage, not giving heaps of Hit Points. The reason for this is that Swashbucklers are not big tough powerhouses like the Barbarian. The large pool of Hit Points represents more than just combat, it also reflects how much brute damage one can take from things like falling off a cliff, resisting physically damaging spells etc. This is why most Swashbuckling classes are low on HD either d6 or d8 usually, but toughen up on AC.

As for the other abilities you list, its not a bad idea giving the "Flaire" or Panache using the same style of mechanic as the Rage. This could reflect the Swashbuckler entering the "zone" of the circle to such an extreme that they become one with the flow of combat. I would however swap STR with DEX as you suggest, but instead of a CON boost, I would give yet more boost AC beyond that from DEX (see above argument).

Just my quick 2 cents worth.

 

[LostSoul]

Good points.

I tend to look at Hit Points very abstractly, in that they measure your ability to stay on your feet. In that vien, not dying from falling off that cliff could be due to the fact that, in the Swashbuckler's years of cheating death, he's gained a familiarity with it; so when he falls off the cliff he doesn't loose his cool and thus he sees a twig which he grabs on to. Of course, the twig snaps and he falls, but not as hard as he would have.

As for physically damaging spells, he just dodged it, reducing the effects that a novice would not have been able to do. All those years of experience have taught him where to move and when.

(This sounds like Reflex save, which it is; in fact, it's both Hit Points and Reflex saves. You probably should swap out the Barbarian's Good Fort Save to a Good Ref Save.)

I realize that it takes a little mental work to thing about Hit Points this way, but that's how they work in D&D. A high Hit Point-Swashbuckler is going to be adept at turning sure hits into glancing blows, while a high AC-Swashbuckler is going to be adept at totally dodging them.

It's a matter of preference, but both ways work well mechanically and with flavour.

 

[Khaalis]

Good points all. It totally depends on how you look at the abstractness of Hit Points and AC. Personal taste and preference.

As fot the Barbarian, I agree - change Fortitude saves to Reflex saves for the good save class.

Oh - and obviously drop the Illiteracy and the alignment restriction.

Skill Changes I would do:
Drop: Animal Handling, Intuit Direction, Listen, Survival, Swim
Add: Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble

Just a few more ideas.

 

[nharwell]

My problem with considering hit points so "abstractly" is the slow way in which they are recovered. If they really represent luck & skill as much as actual hardiness, they should return at a MUCH faster rate (perhaps per hour, like vitality in Star Wars). I have trouble imagining D'artagnan or Cyron De Bergerac having to rest for days after a single fight simply to recover from "fatigue" -- or even Conan for that matter.

 

[drdevoid]

I think this is a perfect example of the d20 system works beautifully. Multiclassing handles this quite well.

A 3E ranger/barbarian or barbarian/fighter can be dualwielding or double axe or double sword swinging as a swashbuckler with authority, his rage encreasing the ferocious speed and force of his blows.

For the more subtle and skilled aproach a rogue/barbarian shortword or rapier duelist gets you the skills, the abilities, and doesn't slow your uncanny dodge progression.

Even a character that starts Monk and then changes alignment and becomes a Barbarian can be a frightening adversary. He is able to use a swords, axes even nunchaku or his own body to wreck havoc on his opponents while moving unarmored with amazing celerity, agilityand grace. Throw in a prestige class like the Duelist or the Tempest and this guy is deadly.

I'd say by 5 level you could be a pretty impressive and by level 10 a true force.

-Joe