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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The Blood War in 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="D_E" data-source="post: 3999792" data-attributes="member: 49225"><p>I would say that when it comes to angels and devils the name of the game is steriotypes. You have your exceptions, sometimes many exceptions, but those exceptions are set against the backdrop of the steriotypical angel/devil.</p><p></p><p>Mortals (can be) all about moral complexity, both in games with alignment and games without alignment, since mortals can change alignments with fair rapidity. So a mortal can be Evil, but only kinda Evil, capable of redemption, and your Paladin wouldn't really be justified in cutting him down.</p><p></p><p>4th Ed has, of course, gone even farther down this road and near-compleatly abolished mortal alignments.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Evil isn't losing. They may be fighting each other, but the law/chaos faultline is present in good as well, and undermines any attempt by the forces of good to take decisive aciton as well.</p><p></p><p>It's more like <strong>everyone's</strong> loosing 'cause they're dumb.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Who said that? There's a lot of demons, I guess, but there's probably a lot of Eladrin, too. Home field advantage makes any invasion an uphill battle anyways. So we wouldn't be talking a brief alyance here, it would have to be a very long one, with no garuntee of victory. Meanwhile, both the demons and the devils are convinced that the other is fighting in a horibly inefficient manner; and the two sides probably can't coordinate that well, either.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can think of lots of examples where evil's lack of unity was it's undoing. Lord of the Rings, for one (Saraman & Sauron). I've only read the first few Wheel of Time books, but the villains in those seem to be hostile twards each other (Whitecloaks are witchunters, those Sea guys fight everybody, probably other's too). Star Wars (if Vader hadn't been trying to double-cross the Emperor in the second there wouldn't have been a third).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Same goes for the Abyss in 4th ed. And everything from the Shadowfell will be shadowy, and everything from the Feywild will be Fey'y.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="D_E, post: 3999792, member: 49225"] I would say that when it comes to angels and devils the name of the game is steriotypes. You have your exceptions, sometimes many exceptions, but those exceptions are set against the backdrop of the steriotypical angel/devil. Mortals (can be) all about moral complexity, both in games with alignment and games without alignment, since mortals can change alignments with fair rapidity. So a mortal can be Evil, but only kinda Evil, capable of redemption, and your Paladin wouldn't really be justified in cutting him down. 4th Ed has, of course, gone even farther down this road and near-compleatly abolished mortal alignments. Evil isn't losing. They may be fighting each other, but the law/chaos faultline is present in good as well, and undermines any attempt by the forces of good to take decisive aciton as well. It's more like [B]everyone's[/B] loosing 'cause they're dumb. Who said that? There's a lot of demons, I guess, but there's probably a lot of Eladrin, too. Home field advantage makes any invasion an uphill battle anyways. So we wouldn't be talking a brief alyance here, it would have to be a very long one, with no garuntee of victory. Meanwhile, both the demons and the devils are convinced that the other is fighting in a horibly inefficient manner; and the two sides probably can't coordinate that well, either. I can think of lots of examples where evil's lack of unity was it's undoing. Lord of the Rings, for one (Saraman & Sauron). I've only read the first few Wheel of Time books, but the villains in those seem to be hostile twards each other (Whitecloaks are witchunters, those Sea guys fight everybody, probably other's too). Star Wars (if Vader hadn't been trying to double-cross the Emperor in the second there wouldn't have been a third). Same goes for the Abyss in 4th ed. And everything from the Shadowfell will be shadowy, and everything from the Feywild will be Fey'y. [/QUOTE]
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