D&D 4E The Blood War in 4E?

SPECTRE666

Explorer
-Richard Baker said this about the Blood War in 4E Core, and the Forgotten Realms!!!

Richard Baker said:
In core D&D, don't expect much about the Blood War.

In FR, we wouldn't retcon it away, but if it's strongly deemphasized in 4e core, it won't play much of a role in 4e Realms. So think of the Blood War as something that was going on intensely in the Realms' cosmos before the Spellplague, but now has diminished greatly.

Let me ask a question, though: If we said that the Blood War had never happened in FR (and I'm not saying we would), what canon would be violated? There are a couple of plane descriptions in the FRCS and FR Player's Guide that would be inaccurate, but is there something major besides those? (What I'm really asking is, How important was the Blood War to the Realms, really?)



Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DELTA
-Rich


Spoiler:
-"The Key Conceits". Point #14 on pg 14 says:"Less Evil fighting Evil""Too much in previous editions deals with evil fighting itself: Demon lords and Archdevils War on each other 'rather than threathening the PCs'. We dont want to waste space on things players cant use. Make sure conflicts are important and useful to making the game fun.
-So where does the blood war fit in what I just posted?
Also the devils are now trapped in the nine hells!!! The only way they can leave is through somebody summoning them OUT!!!
-The demons are at war with all of creation now. The universe has the Elemental Chaos at the bottom, the core world in the middle, and the astral sea on top. So if the blood war was still going, it would be on the core world now. At the beginning the primordials were in the elemental tempest. The gods were in the astral sea. A god(now know as the elder elemental eye) found a shard of pure evil that currupted him, he took it to the elemental tempest. Cast it in to the elemental tempest which currupted a portion of it. Now know as the abyss. Some of the primordials were changed to become ORCUS, GRAZZT, DEMOGORGON, ECT. get the picture. Would have posted last night, had tech problems here in the Feywild(stupid Verizon crew working at 12 midnight)!!!

PS There is not one(1) single mention of the Blood War in W/M!!!



LORD DELTA

__________________
Rich Baker
Senior Designer
Roleplaying R&D
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
 
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Sitara

Explorer
Well, core 4E appears to have a blood war between tieflings and dragonborn...or would tat be a race war now? :D

Can't wait to see how soon this thread degeerates in a 'die WOTC die / You have ruined frcs / the 3e frcs and pg are worthless' etc etc. :D
 

frankthedm

First Post
Ok, so now that them Demon lords are corrupted elemental rulers, which elements will they be, if any?

Demogorgon is very much water. Earth and graves is my first thought for Orcus. Panzuzu of couse would be Air, but the rest i don't know...
 

kennew142

First Post
The Blood War was (IMO, of course) one of the worst story elements ever to work its way into D&D. It always felt trite and uninteresting. I certainly won't miss it.

I can't agree enough with the idea that 2e and 3e had too much evil fighting evil in it. I prefer my PCs to fight the evil, thank you very much.
 

SPECTRE666

Explorer
frankthedm said:
Ok, so now that them Demon lords are corrupted elemental rulers, which elements will they be, if any?

Demogorgon is very much water. Earth and graves is my first thought for Orcus. Panzuzu of couse would be Air, but the rest i don't know...

-They are not using the Earth/Air/Water/Fire distinctions anymore! The Elemental Tempest is all elements combined!

-PS The Great Wheel is DEAD. Yugoloths are now Demons. What is the world coming to!
 

Heresy as it is to say it as someone who loves Planescape dearly, but yeah, I can live without the Blood War, and even with it being ret-con'd out existence in the FR. I don't know if there's any reason to do that, of course, but if they feel it's necessary, it's not going to upset me. I do like the idea that demons and devils are adverseries/competitiors, though, but I can certainly understand dumping an all-out balls-to-wall war between the two, in favour of raids and competition and so on.
 

Stormtalon

First Post
Plus, there's still plenty of opportunity for "incidental" conflict between the two. After all, demons want to destroy everything -- and said universal destruction would be decidedly inconvenient in regards to the devils' attempts to rule everything. That gives plenty of opportunity for a scheming devil to quietly manipulate things to point adventurers in the direction of unravelling demonic plots -- and be ready to step in to turn things to his advantage when the time is right.
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Frank! :)

frankthedm said:
Ok, so now that them Demon lords are corrupted elemental rulers, which elements will they be, if any?

Demogorgon is very much water. Earth and graves is my first thought for Orcus. Panzuzu of couse would be Air, but the rest i don't know...

While it was never canon per se', in the Gord the Rogue novels:

Orcus: Air
Zuggtmoy: Earth
Marduk: Fire
Demogorgon: Water
 



Relique du Madde

First Post
Stormtalon said:
Plus, there's still plenty of opportunity for "incidental" conflict between the two. After all, demons want to destroy everything -- and said universal destruction would be decidedly inconvenient in regards to the devils' attempts to rule everything. ...

Soo... then the blood war still is going on, but now its a shadow war that is being fought by surrogates?
 



Irda Ranger

First Post
Relique du Madde said:
Soo... then the blood war still is going on, but now its a shadow war that is being fought by surrogates?
Only on the Devils' side. The Demons like getting their hands messy.

The Blood War, as written, I will not miss at all. I'm also glad Genasi are still around; they're one of my favorite faces. I hope they get a full race write-up in FRCS.
 


Stereofm

Adventurer
Supporter
Sitara said:
Can't wait to see how soon this thread degeerates in a 'die WOTC die / You have ruined frcs / the 3e frcs and pg are worthless' etc etc. :D

No, it would give them too much of a kick.
 

lukelightning

First Post
kennew142 said:
The Blood War was (IMO, of course) one of the worst story elements ever to work its way into D&D. It always felt trite and uninteresting. I certainly won't miss it.
Same here. I put "Demons vs. Devils" in the same tired cliche as "Vampires vs. Werewolves" and "Pirates vs. Ninjas."

I felt that it adds nothing the players' experience in the game, and also restricts the DM.
 


D_E

Explorer
I don't see a problem with the Blood War, but I also don't see a problem with not having it. Ironically enough, though, although the 4th ed team was very careful to create a situation where the Blood War can't occure, the personalities and goals they gave to the Demons and Devils make war the most likely outcome if the two groups ever do meet!
 

ZombieRoboNinja

First Post
I'm pretty sure the Blood War was mentioned as a subplot in Neverwinter Nights, so there would be at least a bit to retcon there. Although I'm not sure the video games are considered "canon."
 

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