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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 4005092" data-attributes="member: 58197">Elves are "Usually chaotic good."  Demons are "Always chaotic evil" and "the epitome of chaotic evil."  There's no comparison.The ability to summon and control other demons hardly indicates organization, any more than the ability of a balor to use dominate monster does.  It's a way that demons can directly compel one another through magic.As for demon lords and princes: As I said, I don't have my books with me, but I'll have a look in the Fiendish Codex tonight.  My understanding is that "demon lord" means, more or less, "extraordinarily big, bad demon."  The will of a demon lord is such that it can shape the layer on which it resides, and drive lesser demons where it likes.  It doesn't have an organization, just mobs of lesser demons that it throws in the direction of its rivals.Of course, nobody said the 3E cosmology was internally consistent, either...Fine, demons don't "embody" Chaos and Evil, they are the epitome of Chaos and Evil.  Regardless, my point stands; demons as a race are the antithesis of organization.Once again--we're not talking about creatures that have chaotic alignment tendencies, we're talking about creatures whose entire essence is chaos and evil.  These are creatures that paladins get a green light to destroy on sight, no matter what the circumstances, because they are Just That Bad.Demons that deviate from the Chaotic Evil alignment are literally one in a million, if that.  To suggest that demons, as a race, have organization, is to suggest that angels as a race have cruelty and malice, or that modrons as a race have disobedience.  Yes, you might find that one-in-a-million counterexample.  But not enough to affect the social order (or lack thereof) of demons as a whole.I would say that "queen" should be taken with a grain of salt.  If the eladrin are to Arvandor what demons are to the Abyss, then the eladrin "queen" should be no more than the wisest and most powerful eladrin.  She doesn't rule the other eladrin in the sense of giving them orders--each eladrin makes up his/her own mind on everything--but her advice is greatly respected.And I'll concede that demons are capable of organization on the level of "Go here or you die."  But a real organization, where members fall into line and obey orders without having to be constantly cajoled or threatened by a superior, should be beyond them... as it should be beyond the eladrin.  A demon out of its superior's reach should go rogue immediately.Much more consistent, in fact, than 3E was.</blockquote>

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