Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The Blood War in 4E?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4006622" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Well the very nature of the alignment rules and the heavy use of fantasy archetypes gave them an answer long before the Blood War enters into it. It is reasonable to expect a game so heavily influenced by fantasy cliches to adhere to that one, too. Now, if you're getting away from fantasy archetypes in your game, sure, it comes across as heavy-handed, but alignment is only one thing you'd be changing in that case (the very nature of PC classes heavily reinforces archetype, the narrative structure of heroic fantasy reinforces archetype, etc.). </p><p></p><p>Basically, D&D has long poised itself as Star Wars and LotR in terms of fantasy -- you can tell who the bad guys are because they wear black and shoot red lazers and look ugly, and of COURSE they're going to fight themselves. It resists redefining evil, so everyone can know evil at a glance, unless evil is being particularly tricky. </p><p></p><p>I like that they're broadening the unaligned category to allow for a larger grey area, but I think it's a bit odd to request that D&D allow for relativistic gameplay wherein the nature of evil is something that can be discovered and may change from world to world. I'm fairly sure 4e will still define Good and Evil (just as more extreme than they are now), at least. I'm pretty sure that D&D characters will know Good and Evil when they see it (unless it's being tricky). And I'm pretty sure Evil will still be self-destructive (demons and devils oppose each other, theives' guilds oppose necromancer-kings, evil deities squabble, primordials fight monsters, etc.). </p><p></p><p>Getting rid of the Blood War, from what I see, was less about opening up the question of the nature of Evil in the game, and more about severing ties with earlier editions, which 4e is doing in spades. It can be a good thing, because it slices away all those sticky legacy issues, and the Blood War certainly isn't the most important idea they're getting rid of, and it lets them come up with more mythologically appropriate backgrounds for demons and devils. Which I like. So I don't mourn the loss of the Blood War.</p><p></p><p>I merely defend it for what it was. It wasn't a narrow war of stupid evil that emphasized Law and Chaos. It was the archetype of self-destructive evil as D&D saw it, and that archetype is valuable in a game as rife with archetypes/stereotypes/cliches as D&D is. 4e will no doubt find it's own self-destructive evils, though they might not be as obvious or as emphasized as the Blood War was. This probably isn't a bad thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4006622, member: 2067"] Well the very nature of the alignment rules and the heavy use of fantasy archetypes gave them an answer long before the Blood War enters into it. It is reasonable to expect a game so heavily influenced by fantasy cliches to adhere to that one, too. Now, if you're getting away from fantasy archetypes in your game, sure, it comes across as heavy-handed, but alignment is only one thing you'd be changing in that case (the very nature of PC classes heavily reinforces archetype, the narrative structure of heroic fantasy reinforces archetype, etc.). Basically, D&D has long poised itself as Star Wars and LotR in terms of fantasy -- you can tell who the bad guys are because they wear black and shoot red lazers and look ugly, and of COURSE they're going to fight themselves. It resists redefining evil, so everyone can know evil at a glance, unless evil is being particularly tricky. I like that they're broadening the unaligned category to allow for a larger grey area, but I think it's a bit odd to request that D&D allow for relativistic gameplay wherein the nature of evil is something that can be discovered and may change from world to world. I'm fairly sure 4e will still define Good and Evil (just as more extreme than they are now), at least. I'm pretty sure that D&D characters will know Good and Evil when they see it (unless it's being tricky). And I'm pretty sure Evil will still be self-destructive (demons and devils oppose each other, theives' guilds oppose necromancer-kings, evil deities squabble, primordials fight monsters, etc.). Getting rid of the Blood War, from what I see, was less about opening up the question of the nature of Evil in the game, and more about severing ties with earlier editions, which 4e is doing in spades. It can be a good thing, because it slices away all those sticky legacy issues, and the Blood War certainly isn't the most important idea they're getting rid of, and it lets them come up with more mythologically appropriate backgrounds for demons and devils. Which I like. So I don't mourn the loss of the Blood War. I merely defend it for what it was. It wasn't a narrow war of stupid evil that emphasized Law and Chaos. It was the archetype of self-destructive evil as D&D saw it, and that archetype is valuable in a game as rife with archetypes/stereotypes/cliches as D&D is. 4e will no doubt find it's own self-destructive evils, though they might not be as obvious or as emphasized as the Blood War was. This probably isn't a bad thing. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
The Blood War in 4E?
Top