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The Blood War in 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 4008747" data-attributes="member: 2268"><p>Sorry Hussar, but from my perspective there IS no problem...seems my post didn't really bring that over the way I wanted. The point is, they aren't interchangeable, and I'm sure as hell not trying to "justify" anything <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite5" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":confused:" /> ...I'm looking at the different creatures the way <em>I think</em> they should be looked at. Actually, if anybody is trying to justify something, it's the 4E design team on the topic of why they are making those changes. If you read my post, you'll have noticed that I tried to illustrate how a devil and a demon can actually use the very same tool to gain either destructive chaos or malevolent order, all with their own self-serving goals in mind (the EVIL part of their alignments). I have no real problem differentiating this, and hence need no "fresh start" that simply goes ahead and paints both types of outsiders in very garish and blatant stereotypical colors like, in my opinion, 4E is going to do in their attempt to "make things clearer". Maybe most people would love something "simpler" in order to not have too much work to be put into the motivations behind either devil or demon, or their interactions, could be. Personally (and in the end, we're all arguing our personal preferences here right now), I never had a problem with devils showing up to the heroes when it was about swatting some world-destroying, chaos-wreaking demon plot that would wreck their own schemes as well, and offer their help...and I have at least one group who didn't mind Asmodeus giving them a helping hand in stopping chaos from spreading.</p><p></p><p>If I'd take a step back, the only thing I'd look at would be the effect this change will have on the accessability of D&D for a new generations of gamers, and in that regard, a simplification of the outsiders will probably help in not making some people's heads explode. But that's all the positive effect I can see from this change, and the one reason I can accept for it. For my own tastes, I didn't need have problems with the Blood War concept, or the broader concept of demons and devils fighting each other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 4008747, member: 2268"] Sorry Hussar, but from my perspective there IS no problem...seems my post didn't really bring that over the way I wanted. The point is, they aren't interchangeable, and I'm sure as hell not trying to "justify" anything :confused: ...I'm looking at the different creatures the way [i]I think[/i] they should be looked at. Actually, if anybody is trying to justify something, it's the 4E design team on the topic of why they are making those changes. If you read my post, you'll have noticed that I tried to illustrate how a devil and a demon can actually use the very same tool to gain either destructive chaos or malevolent order, all with their own self-serving goals in mind (the EVIL part of their alignments). I have no real problem differentiating this, and hence need no "fresh start" that simply goes ahead and paints both types of outsiders in very garish and blatant stereotypical colors like, in my opinion, 4E is going to do in their attempt to "make things clearer". Maybe most people would love something "simpler" in order to not have too much work to be put into the motivations behind either devil or demon, or their interactions, could be. Personally (and in the end, we're all arguing our personal preferences here right now), I never had a problem with devils showing up to the heroes when it was about swatting some world-destroying, chaos-wreaking demon plot that would wreck their own schemes as well, and offer their help...and I have at least one group who didn't mind Asmodeus giving them a helping hand in stopping chaos from spreading. If I'd take a step back, the only thing I'd look at would be the effect this change will have on the accessability of D&D for a new generations of gamers, and in that regard, a simplification of the outsiders will probably help in not making some people's heads explode. But that's all the positive effect I can see from this change, and the one reason I can accept for it. For my own tastes, I didn't need have problems with the Blood War concept, or the broader concept of demons and devils fighting each other. [/QUOTE]
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