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The Blood War in 4E?
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<blockquote data-quote="FourthBear" data-source="post: 4009740" data-attributes="member: 55846"><p>For some values of chaotic, this sounds fine. After the Blood War has been invoked as some kind of grand, cosmic conflict between diametrically opposed Law! and Chaos!, it's kind of a comedown to find that it seems to boil down to stylistic choices. They just don't seem different enough for me to believe that they're so utterly alien and opposed that they've been engaging in untold eons in the Blood War with no thought as to the vast waste of resources. On one hand, the fiends are supposed to be the exemplars of Law and Chaos, but on the other, people don't seem to want this to stereotype them in any particular way.</p><p></p><p>Of course, all of this is a bit moot, since alignment is indeed being changed and the aligned planes are being set loose in 4e. Given all that, are there any changes people would make in devils, demons, daemons and demodands to describe them *without* invoking alignment. If someone came to you and said that you had to write a description of all of the former fiends in D&D for 4e, but without the Great Wheel or explicit alignment, what would you do differently? Note my stuff below is pretty much the same as the 4e cosmology. Perhaps I'm too tired to be creative right now.</p><p></p><p>I would probably set up something like the current cosmology, with the devils as scheming, behind the scenes plotters. I like the idea of them being trapped in the Hells unless summoned by peoples of the world. I would actually play up their organized nature and greatly decrease their incidence of internal betrayals. I find an evil force that actually are loyal to each other much more frightening than the usual cartoon style evils. However, I would also allow more exceptions to their regimented nature in their cities and aristocracy. So less oppressive dictatorships all around, but also less constant betrayals. I'd like to open up the Hells and their variety of personalities in their ranks, while keeping them all quite malign. I would have the corruption of souls be quite important to devils, perhaps as a perverted way of bringing souls to the inverted god Asmodeus.</p><p></p><p>Demons as a vast mob of instinctively destructive and bestial creatures sounds about right. Demogorgon really would be my shining exemplar of a demon prince. Capable of fighting down the immediate impulses to destroy, but always having them (as Dausuul has described). I would probably reduce incidences of human-like demons and have some of them be shapechangers able to take on human form. Or having using cultists and such precisely because their true forms are so frightening. No particular interest in corruption or souls outside of simple evil pleasure. Definitely the sort of creatures that would ruin pretty much anything just because it was there. Spend most of their time fighting each other and anything within reach. Occasional exceptions sometimes highly dangerous in this regard., but should infrequent enough that they raise an eyebrow when they come up.</p><p></p><p>Daemons and demondands? Nothing too distinctive comes to mind right now. Nohting there looks too different than the 4e stuff, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FourthBear, post: 4009740, member: 55846"] For some values of chaotic, this sounds fine. After the Blood War has been invoked as some kind of grand, cosmic conflict between diametrically opposed Law! and Chaos!, it's kind of a comedown to find that it seems to boil down to stylistic choices. They just don't seem different enough for me to believe that they're so utterly alien and opposed that they've been engaging in untold eons in the Blood War with no thought as to the vast waste of resources. On one hand, the fiends are supposed to be the exemplars of Law and Chaos, but on the other, people don't seem to want this to stereotype them in any particular way. Of course, all of this is a bit moot, since alignment is indeed being changed and the aligned planes are being set loose in 4e. Given all that, are there any changes people would make in devils, demons, daemons and demodands to describe them *without* invoking alignment. If someone came to you and said that you had to write a description of all of the former fiends in D&D for 4e, but without the Great Wheel or explicit alignment, what would you do differently? Note my stuff below is pretty much the same as the 4e cosmology. Perhaps I'm too tired to be creative right now. I would probably set up something like the current cosmology, with the devils as scheming, behind the scenes plotters. I like the idea of them being trapped in the Hells unless summoned by peoples of the world. I would actually play up their organized nature and greatly decrease their incidence of internal betrayals. I find an evil force that actually are loyal to each other much more frightening than the usual cartoon style evils. However, I would also allow more exceptions to their regimented nature in their cities and aristocracy. So less oppressive dictatorships all around, but also less constant betrayals. I'd like to open up the Hells and their variety of personalities in their ranks, while keeping them all quite malign. I would have the corruption of souls be quite important to devils, perhaps as a perverted way of bringing souls to the inverted god Asmodeus. Demons as a vast mob of instinctively destructive and bestial creatures sounds about right. Demogorgon really would be my shining exemplar of a demon prince. Capable of fighting down the immediate impulses to destroy, but always having them (as Dausuul has described). I would probably reduce incidences of human-like demons and have some of them be shapechangers able to take on human form. Or having using cultists and such precisely because their true forms are so frightening. No particular interest in corruption or souls outside of simple evil pleasure. Definitely the sort of creatures that would ruin pretty much anything just because it was there. Spend most of their time fighting each other and anything within reach. Occasional exceptions sometimes highly dangerous in this regard., but should infrequent enough that they raise an eyebrow when they come up. Daemons and demondands? Nothing too distinctive comes to mind right now. Nohting there looks too different than the 4e stuff, though. [/QUOTE]
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