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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 4011850" data-attributes="member: 11697">You don't have to invoke alignment to describe them. I could just as easily wax on about their thematic underpinnings for a 4e description that matched them spot on with their previous incarnations, and 4e already raised the notion of Tharizdun getting his hands on a fragment of "pure evil" which would be a lovely origin for the 'loths.The 'loths aren't destruction, nor are they tyranny. They're a personification of despair, misery, malign apathy, etc. Their perspective depending on what angle you approach it from is that you don't matter in the slightest, but you will suffer all the same. The disease theme fits them well (and you could probably play around with the Orthodox Christian notion of what sin is here). Or alternately, that they're seeking a perfect multiverse: one devoid of mercy.Demodands/gehreleths are similar, but their identity is heavily tied into their shared history with the 'loths, and their creator's falling out with the other baernaloths. They're more heavily associated with betrayal, xenophobic evil, and imprisonment (self-imposed or self-perpetuated). It would take some work fitting them smoothly into a 4e cosmology context without losing too much, but it would be possible.</blockquote>