The Book of Vile Darkness - it is mine, review within

[Grazzt]

Isn't that what i just said earlier....?

Man, I feel like I'm invisible some times.

Most likely you said it before I did, yeah. Just reinforcing it because it makes sense.

 

[herald]

No problem, I just couldn't resist.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Actually, all WotC needs to do is put out a web enhancement for the Epic Level Handbook with these guys statted somewhere around CR 50 and call it a day. I think it's a good idea, myself. I think the lower CR demon/devil lords are very useful, as would be the proposed higher level ones. Why not have two stat sets?

I think this would be great idea.

Hopefully people at WotC come up with same idea. I think it would make many people happy.

 

[BryonD]

In the lastest Dungeon Magazine, in the Book of Vile Darkness adventure, one of the NPCs is a Half-Dryad. What official source is that from?

No source. It is a half-fiend/half-NYMPH. (not dryad)

Simply take a nymph and add the half fiend template.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I may be wrong, but I think that Flexor is just being witty.

Sometimes it's hard to tell I know. Look at my INT & WIS for christs sake! Cut me some slack.

 

[barsoomcore]

Sometimes it's hard to tell I know. Look at my INT & WIS for christs sake! Cut me some slack.

*throws more popcorn*

Keep it up, guys! Great entertainment, this!

*whistles loudly*

(does anyone mind that I'm not contributing a blessed thing to this conversation?)

*startsThe Wave*

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Or that 3 different basic MM dragons should not be MORE powerful than not just " a demon lord", but a long established big boy on the block.

Well, just wanted to clarify, that is my gripe. No epic, no divane, I understand why WotC chose not to go to those routes.

Demon lords used to be in par with more powerful solars and more powerful than dragons, expect for those like Tiamat and Bahamut. Losing in power to nameless basic monsters, make me doubt whatever their name as lords of hells or abyss is actually viable.

It would be interesting to why WotC made this choice. (I guess, it was to just make them more killable to high level core party).

One of my major issues, however goes to special abilities, and how boring and 'fastly invented' I suspect they are going to be. It is really easy to state 'this or that spell-ablity, like PHB spell', but making up unique abilities is harder, and it would be nice if WotC made them too. I just got feeling creators are being lazy when statting critters. I don't think this is so, it's just FEELING, I get.

 

[The Serge]

What you would "expect" is not the determiner of what "makes sense". There is no factor anywhere other than your personal preference that obligates planar rulers to be bona fide deities.

Aside from precedence established in 1ed. Precendence that 3ed has been using fairly consistently.

Wrong. That is not inconsistant within the scope of 3e. They decided to cleft demons from deities a long time ago and stuck with that decision. Again, not a decision I agree with, but they are applying it consistantly.

"The way things were in 2e" is not a determiner of what makes sense. It's just a determiner of the way things were in 2e.

No.

Lolth was a Demon Prince(ess) in 1ed who was also worshipped and ranked as a lesser goddess. The same was the case with other Demon Princes and the Arch-Devils. With 2ed, Lolth, Demogorgon, Baphomet, and others were Tanar'ri Lords and gods both. Now, only Lolth retains the distinction of being a goddess while the others are not. This is not consistent with the goal to return to the "better" elements of 1ed, which is largely what WotC has been doing.

 

[Henry]

All right, let's THROW DOWN, KRUST-BOY!!!!




Seriously, I guess I need to dig back out my 1eMM2, and compare notes. I seem to recall it somewhat differently from what you describe - after all, Grazzt was introduced later than Orcus or Demogorgon, and I recall him as being somewhat lesser in power (although I do recall being impressed way back when that he had magic missile as a spell-like ability )

I also recall him as a prince of deception as early as his description in the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth (his original appearance); in fact, he and Iggwilv were the parents of Drelzna the Vampiress, was he not?? I believe he seduced Iggwilv, unless I am mistaken. Also, is Iuz not the progeny of Grazz't? If both are true, we get the picture of Grazz't as quite the "playah." Therefore, I don't quote 1E, but 2E sources for my info.

Finally, I don't take XP as final measure of a creature's power in 1E or 2E. This system was in some ways as screwy as the CR system, IMHO.

I will have to look back at raw stats between Orcus, Demogorgon, and Grazz't from the 1E sources, but I based my assertions on what I recalled of them. If I am wrong, I will admit it.

However, my supposition still stands: Monte's and WotC's vision can and WILL differ from ours. It doesn't matter in relative power, or in overall. This version of Grazz't will still mop the floor with any Core Rules mortals that come his way. With Orcus and Demogorgon, he might have to be a little more clever.

Live long and prosper, my immortal-knowledgeable friend.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Now, only Lolth retains the distinction of being a goddess while the others are not. This is not consistent with the goal to return to the "better" elements of 1ed, which is largely what WotC has been doing.

True, true. Lolth gets to remain goddess, because dark elves are so kewl. Thank Salvatore and fans for that.

Well, seriously, I think this is major reason, why Lolth remains goddess, she is used so much in books as such, and it would be hard to take it back.

Now, how many mentions of Orcus the god, you have seen in AD&D literature?

Well, I haven't.