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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Whizbang Dustyboots" data-source="post: 8745595" data-attributes="member: 11760">There's a lot of good stuff in the new languages lists:The elevation of sign language -- in a way that reflects that sign is not a single universal language among all deaf people in the real world -- is fantastic. It's recognizing deaf gamers (I DM for one!) while also providing an obvious tactical use for languages for folks who aren't normally terribly excited about language selection. Fantastic inclusion, no notes.That said, the rest of the list could be further improved:1) For starters, we're still perpetuating the idea that every member of a species is the member of a culture with a single language, something we humans, with a globe-spanning presence, certainly haven't mastered. I think it'd be ideal if the 2024 PHB suggested that these are abstractions and realistically, most of these languages would actually be a number of languages -- many of them shared across species -- rather than singular languages, and when there is a species-spanning language, there's usually a supernatural reason for it happening, at least in part. (If the emissaries of the dwarven gods all speak Dwarvish, that's a strong motivation for dwarves to learn and use that language.)2) D&D long ago tossed alignment languages into the trash can. It's probably time to do the same thing for Druidic, unless there's a compelling argument why they're more likely to have a secret language than other classes and why that secret language wouldn't just be Sylvan or Primordial. What special communications are the druids having -- and about what -- that they want to keep secret from dryads and water elementals? This is a weird holdover that doesn't seem to have a point. I've been playing since 1E and I've never seen it used in game, as opposed to Thieves Cant, which is used regularly in my rogue-heavy games.3) Speaking of Primordial, it's not something that even WotC seems to support. In the 2014 Monster Manual, one monster speaks "Primordial." And it's not an elemental. It's the Night Hag. Everyone else speaks a "dialect." But either the dialects can't communicate with one another -- in which case, they should be considered languages, not dialects -- or all these monsters should be just speaking "Primordial," since no one else's accent gets its own special names in D&D. Honestly, I don't see an argument for why water weirds and dao speak the same language and splitting them back into four languages, as they were in 3E, is more colorful and evocative. The handful of druids and wizards who want to speak to all elementals will just learn all four languages anyway (remember: you can learn languages during downtime, and don't need a feat or subclass feature to do it) and they will not be harmed.4) Beyond that, more languages are needed. For the first time, D&D has a single way to classify Neutral Evil fiends: They're Chthonic. And talk about a group that is motivated to have secret communications they don't want others to be privy to. They need their own language, distinct from Abyssal and Infernal.5) On the flip side, if fiends don't all speak Fiendish, why do all residents of the Upper Planes speak Celestial? Only a third of them are lawful. Why would the dudebros of Valhalla want to speak the same language as a cherub hanging out on a cloud, plucking a harp while wearing a diaper? The new Ardling write-up gives us several good names for three different Celestial languages: Exalted, Heavenly and Idyllic. Anything that gives the Upper Planes a bit more character is a good thing, and this is a simple and (IMO) obvious change.6) That said, what do the residents of the Neutral Planes speak? Or the residents of the Shadowfell? What's the common language of Sigil? I bet there's answers in 2E and 4E books to some of these questions, but in 5E, the answer is "uh, whatever your DM says." We can do better than that.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For starters, residents of the Planes of Law, of everyone in the entire multiverse, would be super-keen to have their own language, spoken across half the Outer Planes. Taking a cue from 3E, call it "Axiomatic."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meanwhile, residents of the Planes of Chaos seem likely to speak their own local languages. There is no organization likely to impose a common language on everyone and the residents of these planes are too fractious to go along with it for long.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Back in the Shadowfell, outside of the Domains of Dread, there are cities, cultures and trade between them. It seems likely there'd be a common tongue. In the Feywild, that language is Sylvan. But in the Shadowfell, "Umbral" seems right, a language of slippery meanings and subtle connotations, the natural language of liars and what many Prime illusionists write their spellbooks in, rather than Draconic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Another 2E language that has drifted into obscurity is Jannti, the language of genies. Xorn and frost salamanders are unlikely to sit around and chew the fat, but genies are all about seeing and being seen, visiting each others palaces and cities with great retinues and fanfare. They need a courtly language that lends itself to poetry, seduction, diplomacy and betrayal. (It also distinguishes them from other elementals, whom you know the genies look down on.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In Sigil, all of these languages are spoken, and many more. But there needs to be a trade language and a language of diplomacy spoken by visitors there and many who travel the Astral Sea or sail Oceanus or Styx. Taking a name from Planescape, if not the vocabulary, call it the Planar Cant.</li> </ul>Finally, this is a low-pain change. Languages only matter as much as a DM wants them to. Never want to deal with languages? Great, everyone, including hostile NPCs, all speak the same locally popular language, probably Common. And if DMs love languages but players don't, learning languages can be done during downtime and, soon enough, can be handled with magic.For those who enjoy languages, though, this makes the default/implicit setting of D&D a richer place, where a mountain-dwelling monk might be able to talk to the wind spirits of the mountaintop without then automatically being able to communicate with the creatures from the darkest ocean trenches, where deceitful shadowy creatures speak a language that lends itself to lies (maybe it grants advantage to Deception or disadvantage to Insight), and where beautiful works of poetry exalt lakes of fire and infinite blue skies.What do you think?</blockquote>

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