D&D (2024) The changes to languages are a good start

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
There's a lot of good stuff in the new languages lists:

STANDARD LANGUAGES
Language - Typical Users
Common - Anyone
Common Sign Language - Anyone
Dwarvish - Dwarves
Elvish - Elves
Giant - Giants
Gnomish - Gnomes
Goblin - Goblinoids
Halfling - Halflings
Orc - Orcs
RARE LANGUAGES
Language - Typical Users
Abyssal -Demons
Celestial -Celestials
Deep Speech -Aberrations
Draconic -Dragons
Druidic -Druids
Infernal -Devils
Primordial (includes the Aquan, Auran, Ignan, and Terran dialects) - Elementals
Sylvan - Fey
Thieves’ Cant - Rogues
Undercommon - Underdark folk
The elevation of sign language -- in a way that reflects that sign is not a single universal language among all deaf people in the real world -- is fantastic. It's recognizing deaf gamers (I DM for one!) while also providing an obvious tactical use for languages for folks who aren't normally terribly excited about language selection. Fantastic inclusion, no notes.

That said, the rest of the list could be further improved:

1) For starters, we're still perpetuating the idea that every member of a species is the member of a culture with a single language, something we humans, with a globe-spanning presence, certainly haven't mastered. I think it'd be ideal if the 2024 PHB suggested that these are abstractions and realistically, most of these languages would actually be a number of languages -- many of them shared across species -- rather than singular languages, and when there is a species-spanning language, there's usually a supernatural reason for it happening, at least in part. (If the emissaries of the dwarven gods all speak Dwarvish, that's a strong motivation for dwarves to learn and use that language.)

2) D&D long ago tossed alignment languages into the trash can. It's probably time to do the same thing for Druidic, unless there's a compelling argument why they're more likely to have a secret language than other classes and why that secret language wouldn't just be Sylvan or Primordial. What special communications are the druids having -- and about what -- that they want to keep secret from dryads and water elementals? This is a weird holdover that doesn't seem to have a point. I've been playing since 1E and I've never seen it used in game, as opposed to Thieves Cant, which is used regularly in my rogue-heavy games.

3) Speaking of Primordial, it's not something that even WotC seems to support. In the 2014 Monster Manual, one monster speaks "Primordial." And it's not an elemental. It's the Night Hag. Everyone else speaks a "dialect." But either the dialects can't communicate with one another -- in which case, they should be considered languages, not dialects -- or all these monsters should be just speaking "Primordial," since no one else's accent gets its own special names in D&D. Honestly, I don't see an argument for why water weirds and dao speak the same language and splitting them back into four languages, as they were in 3E, is more colorful and evocative. The handful of druids and wizards who want to speak to all elementals will just learn all four languages anyway (remember: you can learn languages during downtime, and don't need a feat or subclass feature to do it) and they will not be harmed.

4) Beyond that, more languages are needed. For the first time, D&D has a single way to classify Neutral Evil fiends: They're Chthonic. And talk about a group that is motivated to have secret communications they don't want others to be privy to. They need their own language, distinct from Abyssal and Infernal.

5) On the flip side, if fiends don't all speak Fiendish, why do all residents of the Upper Planes speak Celestial? Only a third of them are lawful. Why would the dudebros of Valhalla want to speak the same language as a cherub hanging out on a cloud, plucking a harp while wearing a diaper? The new Ardling write-up gives us several good names for three different Celestial languages: Exalted, Heavenly and Idyllic. Anything that gives the Upper Planes a bit more character is a good thing, and this is a simple and (IMO) obvious change.

6) That said, what do the residents of the Neutral Planes speak? Or the residents of the Shadowfell? What's the common language of Sigil? I bet there's answers in 2E and 4E books to some of these questions, but in 5E, the answer is "uh, whatever your DM says." We can do better than that.
  • For starters, residents of the Planes of Law, of everyone in the entire multiverse, would be super-keen to have their own language, spoken across half the Outer Planes. Taking a cue from 3E, call it "Axiomatic."
  • Meanwhile, residents of the Planes of Chaos seem likely to speak their own local languages. There is no organization likely to impose a common language on everyone and the residents of these planes are too fractious to go along with it for long.
  • Back in the Shadowfell, outside of the Domains of Dread, there are cities, cultures and trade between them. It seems likely there'd be a common tongue. In the Feywild, that language is Sylvan. But in the Shadowfell, "Umbral" seems right, a language of slippery meanings and subtle connotations, the natural language of liars and what many Prime illusionists write their spellbooks in, rather than Draconic.
  • Another 2E language that has drifted into obscurity is Jannti, the language of genies. Xorn and frost salamanders are unlikely to sit around and chew the fat, but genies are all about seeing and being seen, visiting each others palaces and cities with great retinues and fanfare. They need a courtly language that lends itself to poetry, seduction, diplomacy and betrayal. (It also distinguishes them from other elementals, whom you know the genies look down on.)
  • In Sigil, all of these languages are spoken, and many more. But there needs to be a trade language and a language of diplomacy spoken by visitors there and many who travel the Astral Sea or sail Oceanus or Styx. Taking a name from Planescape, if not the vocabulary, call it the Planar Cant.
Finally, this is a low-pain change. Languages only matter as much as a DM wants them to. Never want to deal with languages? Great, everyone, including hostile NPCs, all speak the same locally popular language, probably Common. And if DMs love languages but players don't, learning languages can be done during downtime and, soon enough, can be handled with magic.

For those who enjoy languages, though, this makes the default/implicit setting of D&D a richer place, where a mountain-dwelling monk might be able to talk to the wind spirits of the mountaintop without then automatically being able to communicate with the creatures from the darkest ocean trenches, where deceitful shadowy creatures speak a language that lends itself to lies (maybe it grants advantage to Deception or disadvantage to Insight), and where beautiful works of poetry exalt lakes of fire and infinite blue skies.

What do you think?
 
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Tales and Chronicles

Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I agree with everything. Not much to add, but having different elemental language and planar languages would make the whole thing more interesting.
 


Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
There is almost one language for each alignment plane:

• True Good: Celestial (Idyllic/Paradisal dialect?)
• Lawful Good: Celestial (Heavenly/Supernal dialect?)
• Chaotic Good: Celestial (Exalted dialect?)

• True Neutral: Primordial (!)
• Lawful Neutral: (Axiomatic?) (Mechan?)
• Chaotic Neutral: (Electic?)

• True Evil: Chthonic (?)
• Lawful Evil: Infernal
• Chaotic Evil: Abyssal


I propose the True Neutral astral dominion and the Elemental Chaos are the same thing! Whence, Primordial is the True Neutral language.

I am less fond of the name "Idyllic" for NG. Maybe call it "Paradisal" instead, relating to Paradise?
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
The elevation of sign language -- in a way that reflects that sign is not a single universal language among all deaf people in the real world -- is fantastic. It's recognizing deaf gamers (I DM for one!) while also providing an obvious tactical use for languages for folks who aren't normally terribly excited about language selection. Fantastic inclusion, no notes.
Agreed.
That said, the rest of the list could be further improved: [...]
And you're on the right track with some suggested improvements.

First off, I'll say I really don't mind species-spanning languages for a lot of monsters. Just for the sake of sheer simplicity I'm happy to have all Frost Giants just speak Frost Giant. That said, Frost Giant in my game is a different language from Stone Giant, Hill Giant, Fire Giant, Storm Giant (this one being the only Giant tongue that has a written form), and three or four other Giant languages. The same holds true for other monsters - Centaurs have their own language, as do Unicorns, Bugbears, and about 50 other monsters.

I can also live with near-species-spanning languages for Dwarves and each Elvish sub-type, though local dialects do exist here and there. I chalk this up to a combination of divine influence and a small but persistent amount of long-distance and-or world-hoppign travel.

But Humans should have dozens of languages. Orcs should also have a lot, almost one per community. And at the very least each creature capable of coherent speech should have its own language - batching all the woodland creatures into "Fey" isn't any fun at all.

As for the outsiders' languages, again there should be more. I've never worried much about demonic or devilish language specifics, if only because on the extremely few occasions anyone bothers to speak to one it either already knows something a PC speaks or there's lots of Comprehend Language and Tongues involved.

Mind Flayers have their own (sort of) language, even though 99% of their communication is psionic. Gith have their own. And so on. Divine beings have their own language but as most are capable of speaking any mortal language they want to, you'll never hear them use their own.

Alignment languages are gone, as are Thieves' and Assassins' cants. I've never had Druidic as its own thing.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Personally I would like to see the language categories change slightly. Rather than common and rare languages, I think active and dead languages would be a better distinction.
Nothing stopping one from doing both. You can easily have a list of active Human languages side-along with a list of inactive or dead ones, for example; and have those lists subdivided or ranked by commonality either now or when they existed.
But, I imagine that kind of distinction probably implies too much about setting
Yes, anything like this would be setting-specific; though if they go with a default setting in 5.5 they can always show the language charts for that as an example.
 


The elevation of sign language -- in a way that reflects that sign is not a single universal language among all deaf people in the real world -- is fantastic.
Yes I was impressed by that, particularly from Americans, because even a lot of anti-ableism people there seem bizarrely unaware that ASL is only one of many sign languages and even in the UK we have a different sign language.
 

Yes I was impressed by that, particularly from Americans, because even a lot of anti-ableism people there seem bizarrely unaware that ASL is only one of many sign languages and even in the UK we have a different sign language.
Quite a dig there, and I'm not even American.
Second who are these anti-ableists that we now need to be aware of?
I'm sure both the mythical anti-ableists as well as many non-mythical humans weren't aware of different sign languages existing.

On a completely different note as someone who does not have anyone in his circle who uses sign language the insertion of the common sign language in the D&D product has inspire me with an idea for creating an adventure that includes the party having to interact with a race or people that use sign language to the exclusion of all other spoken language purposefully. Love stuff like this.
 
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Quite a dig there, and I'm not even American.
Second who are these anti-ableists that we now need to be aware of?
I'm sure both the mythical anti-ableists as well as many non-mythical humans weren't aware of different sign languages.
I think you're misinterpreting "anti-ableists". I mean people who are against disability discrimination, not like, people who are against able people or whatever. You don't "need to be aware of" them, I mean what are you talking about? They're not a threat to anybody. They're just people trying to help who in some cases could stand to be a bit less Americanocentric in their assumptions.

If you think there hasn't been an issue with ASL being thought of as the only sign language by certain (often otherwise quite knowledgeable) sections of the American populace, though (and some non-Americans who are a bit ignorant about disability issues), then I'm afraid you are wrong, sadly. An awful lot of people just assume there's "sign language" and that it's somehow international, and because of the dominance of US media, they tend to assume it's ASL. I mention anti-ableist people as I found it shocking (hence the word "even" being used) that people who consider themselves disability activists would not know this - but there are plenty who don't.
 

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