D&D General The Charisma Conundrum

[MuhVerisimilitude]

This is why stats are bad and charisma is the worst and I'm getting so many bad vibes from that whole situation I am going to have to take a shower.

I love how this is one of the few threads I see here where everyone pretty much agrees with each other.

 

[pemerton]

If a character is smarter than a player, do you handicap them based on what the player can do?

Surely you already know the answer to this question, when it is posed to @bloodtide!

 

[pemerton]

It sounds to me like, rather than using this as an opportunity to help Doug learn how to be more charismatic, giving him tips and feedback, you are instead using it as an excuse to dump on him for being weak in an area he has expressed some interest/hope in improving. You are doing him no favors. Present him with NPCs his character has reason to take interest in, to help, to win over, and who in turn have an interest in him, then make it clear how they respond to his roleplaying and why, and don't just throw mechanical penalties on rolls because the guy is shy or awkward.

I've added emphasis to a bit that I think is especially important.

If Doug's character is, in the fiction, charming and/or impressive, then it makes sense that other characters - NPCs - will approach Doug's character and try and befriend him, or implore him, or be seen with him, or just enjoy his company. And in this way the GM can elicit from Doug the desired roleplay, rather than just squash him.

 

[ezo]

I love how this is one of the few threads I see here where everyone pretty much agrees with each other.

You have to appreciate the unicorns when you find them.

 

[James Gasik]

It's like something another poster said recently (apologies for not being able to credit them properly). Charisma is unique among ability scores because there are people who require you to personally possess it to use it in game.

 

[pemerton]

It's like something another poster said recently (apologies for not being able to credit them properly). Charisma is unique among ability scores because there are people who require you to personally possess it to use it in game.

To be fair, Intelligence is another candidate for this.

 

[CreamCloud0]

To be fair, Intelligence is another candidate for this.

it's kind of an issue with all three mental stats to one degree or another, but charisma definitely recieves the most issues with it.

It's like something another poster said recently (apologies for not being able to credit them properly). Charisma is unique among ability scores because there are people who require you to personally possess it to use it in game.

there's also the other end of it where sometimes, having enough IRL charisma can let you bypass needing it in the game, but that's not the issue to be discussed for this thread.

 

[ezo]

there's also the other end of it where sometimes, having enough IRL charisma can let you bypass needing it in the game, but that's not the issue to be discussed for this thread.

Same goes for INT. I've had a lot of very intelligent players, but their PCs have INT 8 sometimes. I don't expect their PCs to come up with brillant plans, even if the players can.

So, this is why I prefer to allow the "rolls" to reign. Rolls dictate what PCs can and can't do physically for STR, DEX, and CON, so let them dictate it for the mental scores as well and generally problems are solved.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

We have had many threads about this and my position is known. What the player says in social situations matters, in the same way that it also matters in combat where you move and what powers you choose to use etc. Players must make decision in a game with their own brains, and those decisions should matter.

That being said, note how I I said "what the player says" rather than "how they say it." Player needs to offer a reason, an angle or a rationale why the NPC would do what they want, and this determines the DC. But they don't need to present this super eloquently or convincingly, that's what the roll is for. If the player invests in their character's social skills, that should obviously improve the character's chances in social situations!

I would also say that if a player wants to try a thing they're not terribly comfortable with, especially if the player is new, the GM should help them. If a person is nervous about speaking in character, then it definitely doesn't help if the GM trashes them when they try!

But as noted, given the OP, I don't think good faith effort on the GM's part can be expected, nor I think they seek genuine advice.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Do you make the same demands of the players with other stats? If a character is smarter than a player, do you handicap them based on what the player can do? Do players only get to be high Constitution fighters if they can run a 10 minute mile while you time them?

I'm with @CreamCloud0 on this.

You are on your way to having your players quit your group en masse.

I am in bad shape if my fighter tries to carry the loot and a fallen comrade while kicking the door open.

(Shuddering as I look at the weight machines in the gym and think about my progress)