If I was to stat up
@bloodtide as an NPC in my RPG, charisma would definitely be low. I don’t mean any offense by that, it just is my perception.
And it begs the question - how can someone really low in charisma really judge how high charisma functions in game?
I rolled an 18 for Charisma!
if the player rolls well enough (don't adjust the DC because you think how they said it wasn't good enough) and has made somewhat of an honest attempt to have their character say something vaguely apropriate to the situation then YES have the NPCs respond well to them, DO NOT attempt to undermine the player's actions and desires because they don't live up to your standards or because you think you know best for them
@bloodtide .
I do not play the robotic D&D of just rolling dice and doing what the rule say.
Approaching the situation already convinced it will fail? That's not a good way to start out. How about, instead, thinking of ways to help Doug? And ways to alter your approach?
Yes, I'm not the type of person that just agrees anyone can be anything if they just sit there and "say they want to be".
So? If he rolls when appropriate, that's how some people game. Why do you hold the face man to a higher standard than the muscle? I mean, you don't judge the muscle's success by how much the PLAYER can dead lift, do you?
Do I hold all players to the same standards? Yes. A player with a character in combat can get modifiers to rolls by talking and describing set actions.
It sounds like you're so ready for him to fail you're looking for ways for him to do so. Why not help him succeed instead?
This is what I'm asking.... My way of helping would be to sit him down and explain reality to him: You can not play this character: make another one. And if he really wanted to learn I would be happy to teach him how to role play a "Faceman" character. So what else is there other then those two?
Bad style of role play? By what standard, why are you imposing minuses? His charisma is what his stat says.
I use the ancient Old School Style where you can modify a roll with descriptive actions.
It sounds like you hold charisma to a much higher standard. That's the real problem.
I hold everything to a higher standard then most people.
It's not healthy? Really? For me as long as the player can tell me what he wants to accomplish, that's more than enough. I don't expect them to be actually eloquent, persuasive, etc. just like I don't expect the fighter to actually know how to swing a sword or the wizard to actually know how to cast fireball.
This is a lot more on how you play the game.
As others have noted, the GM creates the penalties, not the player. You are making that choice here.
I think people are talking in circles here.
Ok, when the player takes actions this can create boons or penalties. Yes, the DM assigns them, but the player is making the choice to do the action.
And, you seem pretty solidly set on how you feel roleplay has to happen, and how it impacts the mechanics - you don't seem eager to change for a compromise either.
I don't change myself or my game play style for one player...no.
Allow the player to describe the approach and desired result in a social interaction, rather than enact it personally. Just as, "I try to run the orc through with my sword," is generally an acceptable way for a character to declare a combat action, "I try to pretend I'm a minor official to get the guard to allow us to pass," should be acceptable.
As I said, I do allow this robotic non role play....he chooses not to.
Do you require your fighter players to be strong? I've never understood why we require it of charisma, but not other stats. It's a game.. .
If it helps, I do require it of the other stats, and in the same way.
Wuh? Yea, you should just tell the players that you are not the right DM for them because, well reasons.
This is true. Doug wants a DM that rolls out the Red Carpet for him and Alters Game Reality for him. I am not that DM.
If I remember right, this is not the first group you've run a game for that you have come to us with this time of issue. i.e. the players don't do what you want the way you want so you feel as DM that you have to penalize the characters.
This is more my Game Style. I do the same thing in every game to all players.
This does not make OP a bad person, in no way am I implying such. It just means that it seems more likely that perhaps you should not be offering to 'help' so many groups by running games for them. Perhaps your efforts could go more into teaching others how to DM and develop their own style, not copy yours.
And I do. I am mentor to fully half of all local gamers. Though there is that other half....
Bloodtide, I think you should stop offering to DM for groups where you already know that they have fundamental differences of playstyle. Given that you already know that your playstyle is controversial and has a very high rate of player attrition, it seems to me that you are setting up both yourself and your newly-adopted players for, at best, a subpar experience.
To be fair...other then the Doug problem...everyone else is having a great time. Even Doug...as remember he has not complained....it was three of the other four players.
Given you continue to pass some pretty harsh judgment on perspectives that don't match yours--"bad style of roleplay", "I don't think that's good or healthy", "sure he will 'feel good' for a few seconds. But it won't be real"--it just doesn't seem productive or beneficial to anyone involved that you do this sort of thing.
I know many like to only game with people they are best friends with and that agree with nearly everything they think nearly all the time. I'm just more opened minded then that.
And, of the five players, two are really enjoying my game style....so there is a good chance I can bring them over to my side.