The Chosen One, Balance to the Force, and my son Connor

[ddvmor]

Out of interest... what do we actually know about this prophecy? Who made it and when? All we know was that someone was supposed to bring 'balance' to the force and that Anakin's circumstances happened to fit.

Is there more detail in any of the novelisations or in the EU?

 

[Rel]

After JD's crosspost from RPG.net, this seems as good a place as any to put forth an observation of mine (though I'm sure I'm not the only person to make it):

Anakin makes for a sympathetic villian because the viewer can in many ways identify with his dilemma. He is afraid about things (like what is happening to his mother) has a deep love for someone close to him (his wife) and gets angry when he is slighted by those whose esteem he craves. He is one of the only people who truly acts "human". The Sith are undeniably evil but the Jedi by contrast aspire to an emotional emptiness that is difficult to identify with too.

I suppose that to their credit, the Jedi Council said that Anakin was too old to start the training but then they backed off on that after Qui-Gon died (oddly, this appears to be an almost emotional decision). But Anakin had clearly formed attachments that the other Jedi could not empathize with. I think that if they understood the level of that attachment then they would have at least sent someone to Tatooine to get his mother out of slavery so that Anakin could quit worrying about her and focus on his training.

If they had done so then it seems very unlikely that he would have turned to the Dark Side and thus it lends credence to the idea that divorcing themselves from any emotions was at least part of the Jedi's problem.

 

[billd91]

I suppose that to their credit, the Jedi Council said that Anakin was too old to start the training but then they backed off on that after Qui-Gon died (oddly, this appears to be an almost emotional decision). But Anakin had clearly formed attachments that the other Jedi could not empathize with. I think that if they understood the level of that attachment then they would have at least sent someone to Tatooine to get his mother out of slavery so that Anakin could quit worrying about her and focus on his training.

The impression I had in Ep1 was that the council could approve jedi candidates, but that wasn't the only way to be taken on. Qui Gon seemed pretty determined to take Anakin on as his padawan and the council seemed to be resigned to that fact. I suspect they have some kind of bi-law that allows a jedi to make their own choices of padawan if they want to, even if the order doesn't approve of that candidate in general. So I think Yoda's approval of Obi Wan taking on Anakin might be a reflection of that rather than backtracking on their own initial decision.

 

[Rel]

The impression I had in Ep1 was that the council could approve jedi candidates, but that wasn't the only way to be taken on. Qui Gon seemed pretty determined to take Anakin on as his padawan and the council seemed to be resigned to that fact. I suspect they have some kind of bi-law that allows a jedi to make their own choices of padawan if they want to, even if the order doesn't approve of that candidate in general. So I think Yoda's approval of Obi Wan taking on Anakin might be a reflection of that rather than backtracking on their own initial decision.

Having watched EpI in the last week, what I recall was that the council told Qui-Gon "No". After that he told Anakin that he wasn't allowed to "train" him so he should "stay close and watch". The fairly clear implication was that Qui-Gon was going to obey the letter of the rules by not givin Anakin specific instruction but that if the boy picked up some things merely by watching, well that was fine by him.

After Qui-Gon's death, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that he can take the boy on as a padawan. I presume this is a way of them honoring the last wishes of the first Jedi (that they know of) to fall to the Sith in a long time.

Given that they specifically mention Qui-Gon having a history of defying the council, it seems reasonable to assume that if they had a "Choose Your Own Padawan" program of some sort, he would have taken that regardless of the preferences of the council. But since he felt a need to adhere to at least the letter of the rules then I suspect that no such allowances are usually made.

 

[Desdichado]

Having watched EpI in the last week, what I recall was that the council told Qui-Gon "No". After that he told Anakin that he wasn't allowed to "train" him so he should "stay close and watch". The fairly clear implication was that Qui-Gon was going to obey the letter of the rules by not givin Anakin specific instruction but that if the boy picked up some things merely by watching, well that was fine by him.

And my impression was that the only reason he didn't take Anakin as a padawan right away was because Obiwan was still a padawan, ungraduated to the Knight class yet. If he hadn't been "saddled" with Obiwan, I don't think there would have been much the Council could (or at least would) have done to stop Qui-Gonn.

 

[Rel]

And my impression was that the only reason he didn't take Anakin as a padawan right away was because Obiwan was still a padawan, ungraduated to the Knight class yet. If he hadn't been "saddled" with Obiwan, I don't think there would have been much the Council could (or at least would) have done to stop Qui-Gonn.

I think it's sort of neat that we all have slightly different variations on how we view the events of the movies. What I think we should do is all get together at GenCon to re-watch the first two films and chat about it.

I'm already bringing my portable DVD player so I'm up for it.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

You guys do realize that you're trying to analyze a movie where the level of Force power is measured in midichlorians, right?

right?

What the hell are those?

I like the idea that 'balance' could be achieved that way but it really doesn't hold up. The Dark Side user held sway over the whole galaxy - the Light Side users (obi-Wan and Yoda) had 2 miserable dirtballs to call home. That ain't balance!

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I like the idea that 'balance' could be achieved that way but it really doesn't hold up. The Dark Side user held sway over the whole galaxy - the Light Side users (obi-Wan and Yoda) had 2 miserable dirtballs to call home. That ain't balance!

Nope, it isn't. However, when Anakin Skywalker

Spoiler

kills Darth Siddious (and not incidentally, himself), leaving one Jedi (Luke) alive who embraces both the light side of the Force AND his positive emotions, acting as a compassionate force in the universe, THAT balances the Force.

Just in case it needed to be said AGAIN.

Incidentally, all the EU crap that comes after that and does its level best to invalidate it can kiss my grits.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Nope, it isn't. However, when Anakin Skywalker kills Darth Siddious (and not incidentally, himself), leaving one Jedi (Luke) alive who embraces both the light side of the Force AND his positive emotions, acting as a compassionate force in the universe, THAT balances the Force.

Just in case it needed to be said AGAIN.

Incidentally, all the EU crap that comes after that and does its level best to invalidate it can kiss my grits.

Did that really need spoiler tags? The movie is 22 years old y'know.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Probably not, but I've been yelled at in the past (notably by a younger person who was waiting until 3 came out to see 4-6), so I try to be careful.