Graf
Explorer
This a thread for the L4W Adventure "The Closed Eye." Both IC and OOC posts go in this thread.
Players Characters (links coming)
Palindrome
Tander
Tristan
Woe
Dramatis personæ (may not be updated frequently)
Doddoddod - Palindrome's reclusive mentor
Lady Glasston - Matriarch of the Glasston's (a Founding Family)
Arnest - the missing grandson
[sblock=Graf's L4W Game Requests]
Rule 0: If you're unhappy or frustrated about something just let me know! I may not be able to give you what you want but it's important to talk about it.
[sblock=OOC: Skills, skill checks, goals, throwing dice at problems and rewarding "doing stuff"]
I will, more or less, follow the rules for skill challenges and other DnD social rules in 4e. Some general comments.
[sblock=Rewarding "Doing stuff"]Right now skill checks have a "failure penalty" built in.
-Generally- speaking I'm not a huge fan of that for -most- things. It encourages what I think of as the worst sort of metagaming tendencies. If someone has a +9 diplomacy and someone else has a +5 you always want to maneuver the situation so that you've got the +9 rolling. Even if its more interesting to have two or three people talking.
The book says your supposed to avoid this by "forcing everyone to roll" which I think is.... at best situationally appropriate. (which is to say, is often wrong/makes very little sense/is boring. The guy with -1 to diplo is going to fail a hard roll. I don't really need to make him roll that.)
So my general rule is this: you won't be penalized for doing things. So Woe's diplomacy is +5 but he won't get into trouble for trying to be dipomatic (even if he rolls a one).
Also, for certain skill challenges there may be actions that are "auto successes". I'm still thinking about how it will work, but I loath it when someone comes up with a great idea that makes perfect sense and advances the story and.... somebody rolls a 2.
It's annoying for me as a DM, and I don't like being annoyed.
Autosuccesses aren't "locked in"; even if I haven't thought about a possibilty before if an idea is really good/makes sense/fits the scene then I'll almost certainly reward a success.
A failure state: is, per the book, not "you don't find anything. Sit around and twiddle your thumbs". I'm commited to the idea that failure also leads to story evolution (hopefully I'll be able to excute to the level that I talk...).
[/sblock]
[sblock=Throwing dice at certain skills]4e has improved this signficantly compared with prior editions but there are certain times when a problem can be solved simply by having a large number of people around throwing dice.
If you have a party of 4 people the odds the group not getting a 15 or better on any given perception, insight, etc roll is 68% (or 76% if you've got 5 players).
This bothers me. It makes people who've invested in getting certain skills largely irrelivant and, encourages weird behavior (not that I see any evidence of it in this game).
So generally speaking I'll roll 1 die for the group using the best score, and "that PC ususally succeds". So if it's "insight" with the starting group then Tander's bonus will be used and (most of the time) Tander's the one who'll get the info.
If the roll is high then most (or everyone) will get the same info. (see this post for an example where the roll was high and everyone got the basic info. Tander got some more because his total was above a 25)
I see that as being more common in shows and making a bit more sense.
Everybody who can reasonably help them (generally speaking being trained) and is helping gets a +2.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Goals (related a bit to autosuccesses)]People have being rping fantastically so far, which gives me a lot of info and so I'm typing this more as a note to myself than anything else.
You'll get more from me for being specific about what you're doing. So if you're searching an area, or interrogating someone and you tell me what you're looking for/up to you won't be penalized but I may hand out a bonus (or potentially an autosuccess).
I'm not looking for a paragraph of text or anything. A setenence is sufficent (or if it's clear from your character acitons, or speach you're character is making and so forth.)[/sblock]
[sblock=Skills]
Here's the list of investigative skills you've got. It's actually pretty impressive.
Woe's spent two feats on skills, getting the party access to stealth and adding some thickness in the diplomacy area (using my system the group weights in at a pretty impressive +12 when Tander, Palindrome and Woe are trying to convince someone to do something).
Tristan's used his eladrin skill to pick up Perception, which is nice for a group that's investigating and otherwise doesn't have it trained.
I'll generally allow Tander's 18 wisdom to count as "trained support". 18s are expensive and a +4 is almost the same as a +5.
The group doesn't have Bluff (which could be an issue*) or History (which is less of an issue since you can consult with outside help and/or Palindrome can try to spoof it... +4 with a reroll at +6 once a day when he visits the library).
*=This is an issue because you can't "outsource" a bluff. A lot of what Paldindrome seems to want to do (convincing the servants to take a day off, making people think things that he obviously doesn't believe himself, etc) falls under "bluff".
Bluff is also one of those skills that "doesn't stretch well"; it's reasonable to have Woe looking for something and have Tristan notice he's looking for something and then "notice that thing" (or at least it's not unreasonable). So Perception stretches reasonably well.
It's very difficult to imagine a situation where Tander (who has the best bluff skill, untrained at +3) can "bluff for Palindrome".
Palindrome has bluff now.
Senseing
Arcana +9 (Palindrome) - this is the "detecting magic" ability
Heal +9 (Tander) + Woe [6]
Perception +6 (Tristan) + Tan [4u]
Insight+9 (Tan),
Social Engeering
Bluff +6 Palindrome
Intimidate +5 (Tristan)
Diplomacy+8 (Tander) +P [6] +Woe [5]
Streetwise +5 (Woe)
Knowledge
Arcana +9, (P) + Tan [5]
Dungeoneering +6(Palindrome) +Tan [4u],
Nature +6(Palindrome)
Religion +9(Palindrome) +Tan [5]
Other
Stealth +5 (Woe)
Thievery +7 (Palindrome)
Don't have trained
History (Palindrome +4u/Tristan +2u)
[/sblock]
[/sblock]
Players Characters (links coming)
Palindrome
Tander
Tristan
Woe
Dramatis personæ (may not be updated frequently)
Doddoddod - Palindrome's reclusive mentor
Lady Glasston - Matriarch of the Glasston's (a Founding Family)
Arnest - the missing grandson
[sblock=Graf's L4W Game Requests]
Rule 0: If you're unhappy or frustrated about something just let me know! I may not be able to give you what you want but it's important to talk about it.
- I'd like you to post every day or so. If you can't that's OK, but if you'll be unable to post for more than a day or two (during the week) please EMAIL ME or POST IN THE THREAD. (I know that posting in some random thread I'll never see is the traditional method for EnWorld, but uh, I don't really like that. It's fine if you make an "absent" thread and link to it from the thread, but otherwise I'll never see it.)
- One sentence like: Away til next Thurs. Pls NPC me. Is great/fine/wonderful.
- To encourage that... if you post within 24 hours of my post you get +1 to whatever you're doing (this, obviously is particularly important in combat and in combat applies to your attack rolls only).
- (And just add the +1 in. I'm not going to do it for you and I don't really police it -- it's a gentleman's/ladies honor thing.
- Of course, if I can't figure out how you got +15 to something then I may ask, but that's usually because I don't know the rules.)
- Please work to keep all OOC talk in the thread.
- You can sblock
- you can put OOC: this is OOC talk
- You can just put things in brackets (see below)
Example: Amicus runs toward the goblin [move action: 3n 2ne]. Calling forth the power of the gods he plunges his radiant spear into it's chest [standard: bolstering attack 20vsAC|17damage and turns into a pickle].
- Use invisible castle for rolls.
- Link when you roll (if you can't because you're traveling or not on a computer that's OK -- if it's a regular problem we'll need to find a solution).
- The campaign name is Closed Eye
- (If you get a field or a bonus wrong don't worry. Just use the original roll ad include and explanation of what happened (i.e. "forgot flank bonus so it should be 17 instead of 15")
[sblock=OOC: Skills, skill checks, goals, throwing dice at problems and rewarding "doing stuff"]
I will, more or less, follow the rules for skill challenges and other DnD social rules in 4e. Some general comments.
[sblock=Rewarding "Doing stuff"]Right now skill checks have a "failure penalty" built in.
-Generally- speaking I'm not a huge fan of that for -most- things. It encourages what I think of as the worst sort of metagaming tendencies. If someone has a +9 diplomacy and someone else has a +5 you always want to maneuver the situation so that you've got the +9 rolling. Even if its more interesting to have two or three people talking.
The book says your supposed to avoid this by "forcing everyone to roll" which I think is.... at best situationally appropriate. (which is to say, is often wrong/makes very little sense/is boring. The guy with -1 to diplo is going to fail a hard roll. I don't really need to make him roll that.)
So my general rule is this: you won't be penalized for doing things. So Woe's diplomacy is +5 but he won't get into trouble for trying to be dipomatic (even if he rolls a one).
Also, for certain skill challenges there may be actions that are "auto successes". I'm still thinking about how it will work, but I loath it when someone comes up with a great idea that makes perfect sense and advances the story and.... somebody rolls a 2.
It's annoying for me as a DM, and I don't like being annoyed.
Autosuccesses aren't "locked in"; even if I haven't thought about a possibilty before if an idea is really good/makes sense/fits the scene then I'll almost certainly reward a success.
A failure state: is, per the book, not "you don't find anything. Sit around and twiddle your thumbs". I'm commited to the idea that failure also leads to story evolution (hopefully I'll be able to excute to the level that I talk...).
[/sblock]
[sblock=Throwing dice at certain skills]4e has improved this signficantly compared with prior editions but there are certain times when a problem can be solved simply by having a large number of people around throwing dice.
If you have a party of 4 people the odds the group not getting a 15 or better on any given perception, insight, etc roll is 68% (or 76% if you've got 5 players).
This bothers me. It makes people who've invested in getting certain skills largely irrelivant and, encourages weird behavior (not that I see any evidence of it in this game).
So generally speaking I'll roll 1 die for the group using the best score, and "that PC ususally succeds". So if it's "insight" with the starting group then Tander's bonus will be used and (most of the time) Tander's the one who'll get the info.
If the roll is high then most (or everyone) will get the same info. (see this post for an example where the roll was high and everyone got the basic info. Tander got some more because his total was above a 25)
I see that as being more common in shows and making a bit more sense.
Everybody who can reasonably help them (generally speaking being trained) and is helping gets a +2.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Goals (related a bit to autosuccesses)]People have being rping fantastically so far, which gives me a lot of info and so I'm typing this more as a note to myself than anything else.
You'll get more from me for being specific about what you're doing. So if you're searching an area, or interrogating someone and you tell me what you're looking for/up to you won't be penalized but I may hand out a bonus (or potentially an autosuccess).
I'm not looking for a paragraph of text or anything. A setenence is sufficent (or if it's clear from your character acitons, or speach you're character is making and so forth.)[/sblock]
[sblock=Skills]
Here's the list of investigative skills you've got. It's actually pretty impressive.
Woe's spent two feats on skills, getting the party access to stealth and adding some thickness in the diplomacy area (using my system the group weights in at a pretty impressive +12 when Tander, Palindrome and Woe are trying to convince someone to do something).
Tristan's used his eladrin skill to pick up Perception, which is nice for a group that's investigating and otherwise doesn't have it trained.
I'll generally allow Tander's 18 wisdom to count as "trained support". 18s are expensive and a +4 is almost the same as a +5.
Bluff is also one of those skills that "doesn't stretch well"; it's reasonable to have Woe looking for something and have Tristan notice he's looking for something and then "notice that thing" (or at least it's not unreasonable). So Perception stretches reasonably well.
It's very difficult to imagine a situation where Tander (who has the best bluff skill, untrained at +3) can "bluff for Palindrome".
Palindrome has bluff now.
Senseing
Arcana +9 (Palindrome) - this is the "detecting magic" ability
Heal +9 (Tander) + Woe [6]
Perception +6 (Tristan) + Tan [4u]
Insight+9 (Tan),
Social Engeering
Bluff +6 Palindrome
Intimidate +5 (Tristan)
Diplomacy+8 (Tander) +P [6] +Woe [5]
Streetwise +5 (Woe)
Knowledge
Arcana +9, (P) + Tan [5]
Dungeoneering +6(Palindrome) +Tan [4u],
Nature +6(Palindrome)
Religion +9(Palindrome) +Tan [5]
Other
Stealth +5 (Woe)
Thievery +7 (Palindrome)
Don't have trained
History (Palindrome +4u/Tristan +2u)
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