The Complete Mage - What are your Thoughts

[Herremann the Wise]

Hello Everyone,

The Complete Mage is a product I've been interested in for quite a while. I found the following on the WotC site and thought it of interest - apologies if this is already common knowledge:

Arcane Power at Your Fingertips

Every sentient creature is born with some potential to work magic. However, true mastery of arcane magic requires skill, practice, and power beyond the reach of common folk—specifically, the power to harness raw magic and shape it into a desired effect. You are among those gifted few who have learned to channel arcane magic, shaping it to serve your creative or destructive whims.

This D&D supplement is intended for players and Dungeon Masters. In addition to providing the definitive treatise on arcane magic, it expands the character options available to users of arcane magic, including bards, sorcerers, wizards, assassins, warlocks, and wu jen. Herein you’ll find never-before-seen prestige classes, spells and invocations, magic items, alchemical items, heritage feats, and reserve feats (a new type of feat that grants special abilities to those who remain charged with magical power). Alternative class features give other character classes—from the barbarian to the rogue—a little taste of what it’s like to be an arcanist without sacrificing their core identities.

It looks like we are going to get a nice bit of supporting crunch for all the arcane classes. In addition, the alternative class features (from PHBII) would seem to give some of the other classes a little bit of arcane punch too - I certainly like the idea of this*.

To me, this looks pretty tasty although I can understand that for some, it might be overkill and "complete"ly unnecessary.
What are your thoughts?


*I think the alternative class feature is priming the way for 4E. I could imagine them varying up the classes so much that there would be an incredible variety of levelling options that do away with the feat/class feature/ability description. Possibly, it might even do away with the classes themselves.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

PS: I believe the Complete Mage will weigh in at 224 pages.

 

[MerricB]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/953847200

224 pages seems right.

I think the alternative class feature is priming the way for 4E.

I think you're incorrect there. I think the alternative class feature is just showing more ways that 3.5e can be used.

I'm very much looking forward to Complete Mage. My players and I almost always find the Complete books to add a variety of interesting new options, and I also feel that Wizards R&D is getting better at gauging the power level of new classes and options, thus making CM to be a very interesting book indeed...

Cheers!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Those alternate class features could be awesome.

Or, they could be stuff like "Yay, I'm 10th level and now I'm a barbarian who can cast MAGIC MISSLE!"

I'd wager more on the former, but this is definately a "look before buy" kind of thing.

Also, a little sad to see no Warmage support. :\

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I too think that this is just showing off how 3.5 could be tweaked. Although about the only thing that would get me out of 3.5 and into 4e would be a completely classless system that allowed characters to buy certain options as the equivalent of the 3.5 class levels. [Or, save levels to buy bigger options ... such as the ability to buy a feat in exchange of two class level equivalencies. That would rock - and totally eliminate the racial favored class mechanic that most DMs I know ignore anyway. [Although I don't ignore it, personally]

I am especially tempted by this caveat:

Alternative class features give other character classes—from the barbarian to the rogue—a little taste of what it’s like to be an arcanist without sacrificing their core identities.

If anyone form WotC Research and Development is reading this thread take note. Make this section as good as the PHBII section regarding class variants and it will go a long way in making this book well worth the expense.

Additionally,

In addition to providing the definitive treatise on arcane magic, it expands the character options available to users of arcane magic, including bards, sorcerers, wizards, assassins, warlocks, and wu jen.

Additionally, make the sections noted by my own emphasis worthwhile. General arcanists have gotten support in most of the Complete books if not all. Please God, if there is anything good under the sun, let the section on Warlocks (and to a lesser extent) Wu Jen support be worthwhile.

I think if WotC can put the Complete Mage together in a way that supports the Warlock, the Wu Jen, and especially gives variant magical options to the other classes you will have happy customers.

The only thing I almost regret is the fact that with another complete book we'll be getting three more base classes, no? I mean, how many more magic users do we need? We already have for Core+Complete: [Help me out if I miss any]

Wizard (and specialists)
Sorcerer
Bard
Wu Jen
Hexblade
Warmage
Warlock
Spellthief

If we add in the PHBII we get the addition of the Duskblade and Beguiler. Do we really need more ways to throw arcane power around that cannot be done with an existing class and/or a PrC? [This is a legitimate question, not a rhetorical one.]

 

[MerricB]

Do we really need more ways to throw arcane power around that cannot be done with an existing class and/or a PrC? [This is a legitimate question, not a rhetorical one.]

Yes. Seriously, there are many variations on arcane magic-users (just see variations in fantasy fiction!)

Not all may be appropriate for a particular campaign, but I can certainly say that having options like the War Mage and the Beguiler can significantly affect the feel of a particular game.

If you run a campaign in a land where regular arcanists are unknown, but War Mages are common, then there's a different feel to one where Beguilers are dominant. (I'm currently using such a campaign in Greyhawk, where Bards and Druids are much more common than Wizards and Clerics!)

I'm not going to list the possible variations of arcanists because, let's face it, I'm not a designer for a reason. I buy D&D books to help give me ideas for such matters! Each new option for D&D opens up a new avenue to explore the game - something that my friends have definitely appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Earning your title as Enworld Optimist, eh Merric?

Point well taken. Actually, I was (and am) really keen on the Duskblade and the Beguiler. I'm not a big fan of "blow 'em up" wizards, so the warmage does little for me. But other people have fun with them, so its all cool. And of course I allow them in my games, I'm not fickle!

So your point is taken. I suppose I should ammend my earlier expression to a plea to just making sure that the new base classes are not something that can be done with pre-existing stuff. I'd be happy if they come out with something as unique as beguiler or duskblade in Complete Mage.

 

[MerricB]

Earning your title as Enworld Optimist, eh Merric?

Could be, could be.

Point well taken. Actually, I was (and am) really keen on the Duskblade and the Beguiler. I'm not a big fan of "blow 'em up" wizards, so the warmage does little for me. But other people have fun with them, so its all cool. And of course I allow them in my games, I'm not fickle!

Warmage doesn't do that much for me either, but I definitely know players whose eyes light up in glee when they look at the class!

I suppose I should ammend my earlier expression to a plea to just making sure that the new base classes are not something that can be done with pre-existing stuff. I'd be happy if they come out with something as unique as beguiler or duskblade in Complete Mage.

Indeed.

Cheers!

 

[demiurge1138]

224 pages? Wow. That's longer than any other Complete book, isn't it? Hopefully it's not just another bunch of new spells (since those are what take up a lot of space). Hopefully more arcane options, ala the PHB 2 alternate class features, are what's actually in the offerring.

Demiurge out.

 

[MerricB]

224 pages? Wow. That's longer than any other Complete book, isn't it? Hopefully it's not just another bunch of new spells (since those are what take up a lot of space). Hopefully more arcane options, ala the PHB 2 alternate class features, are what's actually in the offerring.

Herein you’ll find never-before-seen prestige classes, spells and invocations, magic items, alchemical items, heritage feats, and reserve feats (a new type of feat that grants special abilities to those who remain charged with magical power).

Nope, it's all spells.

Cheers!

 

[Lordgrae]

Charged with magical power huh? Hope its not just a rehashed Psionic focus type deal.

Grae