The current state of fantasy literature

[Emueyes]

Some people might argue that they are objectively not good books, yes. But you know what? Those people would be talking through their hats, because there's no such thing as an objective measure of literary quality! This is art we are talking about - it's value and effect are subjective, not objective.

I'm going to be talking through my hat, here.

Objectivity is subjectivity that withstands the test of reality. James Joyce's Ulysses is objectively better than The Rats of Nimh even if I like it less. I have no problem saying that the best book I've ever read was Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hunded Years of Solitude, but also that my favorite book I've ever read was Watership Down. I can distinguish between personal appeal and quality. Can you?

There are books that are more sophisticated than others. Gene Wolfe, though arguably not fantasy, is certainly more sophisticated with his religious themes and depth of story than Robert Jordan and his poorly masked cold war drivel. Still, kids need something to read.

 

[Desdichado]

Eric's grandmother definitely doesn't want to hear about the Gor books.

I've never heard that the Gor books have anything approaching graphic sex in them. I even read the first one once, back when I just assumed that Gor was a John Carter of Mars knock-off.

 

[hwoolsey]

Eric Van Lustbaders Sunset Warrior, 5 books, 1977-1980

I can only think of four - the original trilogy and one of the sequels - the title of which escapes me at the moment. What were the two sequels?

Hank

 

[WizarDru]

I can only think of four - the original trilogy and one of the sequels - the title of which escapes me at the moment. What were the two sequels?

Sunset Warrior1. The Sunset Warrior[size=-1] (1977)[/size]2. Shallows of Night[size=-1] (1978)[/size]3. Dai-San[size=-1] (1978)[/size]4. Beneath an Opal Moon[size=-1] (1980)[/size]5. Dragons on the Sea of Night[size=-1] (1997)[/size]

As for the Gor series, other than hearing that they were pretty bad (although Ihear that Perry Rhodan was worse), they were, as far as I know, rife with sexual content.

For example, check out the things like this: "In the fifth book in the Gorean Series, the deadly assassin Kuurus is intent on a bloody mission of vengeance. His adventure takes him from the caste of the pleasure-slaves, which are rigorously trained in the rules and techniques of sexual ecstasy, to the brutal arenas where humans participate in deadly hand-to-hand combat."

or this: "In this seventh book in the Gorean Series, beautiful and headstrong Elinor Brinton of Earth finds herself thrust into the savage world of Counter-Earth, also known as Gor. Brinton must relinquish her earthly position as a beautiful, wealthy and powerful woman when she finds herself a part of the harsh Gorean society. She is powerless as a female pleasure slave in the camp of Targo the slave-merchant. Forced to learn the arts of providing pleasure to any man who buys her, Elinor is determined to escape. Nevertheless, she is sold for a high price, and her master is determined to get his money's worth?"

Oh yeah, baby. Va-va-va-voom!
Click on the image to party like it's 1969.

How about this?: "On Gor, there are three different kinds of beings that are labeled beasts: there are the Kurii, a monster alien race that is preparing to invade Gor from space; the Gorean warriors, who fight with viciousness almost primitive in its blood lust' and then there are the slave girls of Gor, lowly beasts for men to do with as they see fit, be it as objects of labor or desire."


And let not forget this one: "Former Earthman Tarl Cabot is now a powerful Tarnsman of the brutal and caste-bound planet of Gor, also known as Counter-Earth. He embarks on an adventure in the dangerous and mysterious wilderness of Gor, pitting his warrior's skills against treacherous outlaws, bandits and fighters. Three different women are working to bring change to Tarl's far-from-peaceful life on Gor: Talena, his one-time queen and first love; Elizabeth, his brave fighting partner; and the Amazonian Verna, chief of the fierce and wild panther women. As Tarl journeys through the wilderness, the fates of these three remarkable women will finally be decided."
Click on the image to really appreciate the woman's pose, there.

 

[Michael Sorensen]

How many read Fairy Tale? Or High Hunt or The Losers by David Eddings?

Me. Well, at least Fairy Tale and The Losers.

 

[Null Boundry]

How many read Fairy Tale? Or High Hunt or The Losers by David Eddings?

Me. Well, at least Fairy Tale and The Losers.

I've read the first two not sure about the thirs, it sounds familiar but I may just have seen it in the shop.

 

[WizarDru]

I've read the first two not sure about the thirs, it sounds familiar but I may just have seen it in the shop.

I read Faery Tale. It was OK, but not really great. It wasn't really a fantasy, more of a magic realism book. It ventured closer to modern horror than fantasy, in many cases, and really wasn't what I was interested in reading at the time. And for the record, I haven't read much by Feist since, Midkemia books or otherwise.

 

[Mallus]

Even a very cleverly written Pokèmon tie-in novel will never have a chance to rise above the level of futile and pointless fluff.

Even it were written by someone like Donald Barthelme or David Foster Wallace [a 1000 page Pokemon novel... can you picture how much cuteness it would contain?!]??

If your main ambition as a writer is to determine if Captain Marvel is stronger than Superman or not (he is, by the way ), you're limiting your literary options so much that the end result will almost certainly be less interesting than any attempt at writing the Great American Novel.

That's a bloody great point MB, one that I haven't heard stated often enough in discussions of lit. around here. What a literary work attempts to do counts. Almost as much as how well it succeeds at doing it. Or perhaps more. I usually respond better to ambitious and audacious failures than to unambitious but well-crafted works [except in the case of Raymond E. Fiest].

 

[Storm Raven]

I've never heard that the Gor books have anything approaching graphic sex in them. I even read the first one once, back when I just assumed that Gor was a John Carter of Mars knock-off.

They get worse as you go. I gave up when the topic of the books degenrated to women learning to have "slave orgasms" while they are being whipped.

 

[Krellic]

No discussion of fantasy could be complete in my opinion without mentioning David Gemmell whose books are never bloated and whose series not too long.

Every time my gaming group get together just to have a few beers and shoot the breeze you can guarantee his name will be mentioned at least once!

Now there's an author who really knows how to kill off his heroes!