The Death of Eliminster

Another idea if you wanted to create all sorts of Havoc in the realms the PC's could get involved with. What if some crisis demanded that Mystra draw all of her essense back in herself essentially unmaking all of her chosen. This might have one of two results, either they all drop dead which creates a lot of immediate havoc, or they all return to being normal people which could be more interesting since they might try to hide this change to forestall the previously mentioned havoc.


Thread just gave me a brainstorm and I thought I'd post it while I was thinking of it, though I guess it doesn't really help answer your question.
 

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Well I like Elminster --- we used to hang out back in the day .... OK Well that was really silly

My suggestion is to make the big E just disappear for a while, off fighting Cuthulu or something

After all every campaign benefits from a Cuthuloid horror

Afterwords all hell breaks loose. LEt the players level up stopping the Zents, Moander and who ever else is out to open up a can of evil whoop a$$ on the realms

When they get high enough level let them find him and bring him back. While the Big E recharges the PC's can play epic level clean up crew.

Tons of fun to level 30 or so....
 

There was a spell for situation just like this in the Book of Eldritch Might III: The Nexus. If a dragon slays someone, it can cast this spell and consume the victims heart. Now, as long as the dragon who did this lives, the deceased person cannot be brought back by any means.

Actually Elminster is a wussy fror his CR. 25 level party could defeat him. And so could dragons of about CR 20. So let the dragons kill him, and use some spell to keep him dead.

IMO there's no reason why players should be witnessing this. It might be boring to witness the battle of el vs. dragons, when they're escorting some villagers to whereever.
 

Re: Long Term Thoughts

Lord Zardoz said:
If you really want to mess with your players, you could have Elminster's return become an excuse for alot of fun. Just say that Elminster converted to the worship of Bane or Tiamat, and is now devoted to the extermination of life rather then the preserving of it.

If the players ask why he was such a nice guy for all those years, just say that even Mystra's Charm/Dominate spells dont last forever.

By the way, I really hate Elminster.

END COMMUNICATION

Considering what a butt-load of XP anyone would get from defeating elminster compared to the challenge he presents, it's wonder the old geezer has been alive since the beginning of 3e. CR 39? Yeah right..
 

My inoffensive considerations...

- When such an epic character gets killed, as a player I would like to see him killed in an epic way: an epic-advanced dragon would not impress me more than any other adult or better dragons, especially if my PC is low level and can't actually tell the difference by sight; a hundred dragons in the air would definitely impress me. This is just a story-telling consideration, perhaps you can come up that all red dragons of the world have gathered to slay him, and summoned some forgotten ancient red dragon's capostipite (e.g. about a hundred adult-to-greatwyrm red dragons AND one single epic dragon, if you can't slay him with the "smaller ones").

- There was a thread around about Resurrection and True Resurrection: Res needs remains, TRes doesn't but it seems clear only that it doesn't because you can resurrect people dead since a long time. If the remains are still preserved somewhere, you may rule that the TRes must be cast at their presence. Still a Wish or Miracle may circumvent it, but you know you're the DM and if there's some deity that would grant a Miracle to bring ELM back, there could be a deity who can oppose the Miracle in some way, especially if that deity is who commissioned ELM's murder.
 

EvilPheemy said:
The idea of a massive attack is good, gives the PCs something to do whilst Elminster chucks multiple world-shaking spells. My advice mirrors the "deus ex machina" camp in that it's not really necessary to roll the damage from Meteor Swarms, or make the DC 35 saves from Dragonbreath. Keep your players involved in their own struggles.

One possible scene that could transpire would be El blasting a Colossal-sized red dragon with a nasty spell, killing it mid-flight. Now several tons of dragonmeat comes crashing down nearby, possibly at terminal velocity. Before they know it, the players would find themselves in the middle of an inferno from which they have to escape, and/or save less fortunate souls.

Instead of killing Elminster, I strongly reccomend leaving nothing "writ in stone" so to speak. If Elminster is missing/presumed dead, there are a lot of powerful, heroic folks wandering the Realms who would make recovering Elminster their top priority. Which provides you, as DM with lots of opportunity. Instead of removing just one CR 39 wizard from Shadowdale, you have effectively tied up most of the Epic level heroes, and nearly every other good-aligned person of above 16th level in a mass search and rescue mission.

Leaving the forces of EVIL a window of opportunity to engage in all sorts of mischief. Why, only the bravest of a new generation of heroes could possibly oppose such a crisis!

All in all, it sounds like a pretty solid idea for a campaign. Heck, there is even room for a follow-up campaign when Elminster and Company return from parts unknown, and find all of these upstart heroes who think they can save the realms better than the Old School.

This is more of what I had in mind when I came up with this idea. I wanted to use the Heartlands as the focus of the campaign but was really bothered by the fact that all these major heroes are running around. It bugged me on a subconscious level, like, "why doesnt the big goods do something about these issues instead of the PCs?" By making the big goods busy, trying to find what caused the Flight, who was behind it, and trying to fill the vacuum Eli left, then I leave tons of room for the PCs to be heroes on a more modest scale.

Besides, massive destruction is aways fun. My concern is the players will be annoyed by the opening scene, the fight between Eli and the dragons, but that's all it really is, an opening scene to set the stage.
 

I seriously don't believe it is possible to kill Elminster. Even if you were able to knock all of his life out he still has the Symbul's Spell Matrix & Elminster's Evasion to get him out of trouble & to completely heal him, not to mention that he has the aid of a Goddess more than anyone else in Fearun. If you were ever going to try a Wish spell to keep him dead, I think Mystra would not allow the use of magic to kill her #1 magic user.
 

jester47 said:

Who is as powerful as Elminster?

Manshoon, Szass Tam,Suruppak all come pretty close. And there are more.
I would say that both Larloch & Prince Telemont are tougher than Elminster, exspecially if you could give them home advantage.

Larloch gave Szass Tam two un-named artifacts for just reaching him when the Red Wizards tried to kill him. Not to mention that he is immune to one spell of every level, which is not yet known. He can absorb about 500 magic missles, has nearly two dozen lesser artifact ioun stones above his head (8 of which will absord around 20 spells or so of every level up to level 9), his physical attack delivers permanent paralysis, he is immune to almost all necromancy, he can heal himself while damaging oppenents with single spells, and this is just considering if it's him one on one, he does lead the Warlock's Crypt.
 
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Pulling out a trick from my ol' DM's bag.

If I were to start a campaign with the same goals as you described. I'd get all the PCs together in a tavern, just as if you were starting a tired, old "smelly dwarf sells you a map to treasure" cliche'. Set the scene with as many cliche'd standbys as you can get away with. Half-elven bards singing, barmaids flirting, drunks belching, go all out.

Then have the dead dragon crashland into the tavern. No preamble, get folks into talking to the bar patrons then tell the group, "Make a reflex save at DC 15 because the far wall just exploded, the roof is caving in, and fire is erupting everywhere". Don't stop to answer their questions as to how this happened. Just stress the panic going on. The building's falling down, the wall's gone and staying here is not an option.

When the PCs make it outside, set a scene of utter chaos. Mostly with burning buildings, and screaming, panicking citizens. Let them soak that in for a second, then tell them about the dragon. Don't even let them know it's dead at first, let the PCs panic about being way too close to a way too big dragon.

The point is not to let the players or characters have enough time to wonder why this disaster is happening, just keep them reacting to crisis after crisis in the first game session. Getting bored with firefighting? Hit the PCs with a marauding band of orcs (who had followed the dragons hoping to sneak in a bit of pilliaging and plundering).

Finish the first game session with the PCs helping to get the damage under control. Then hit them with the scope of the catastrophe in the second game session. A battle of this magnitude wouldn't be contained in just Shadowdale, there would be collateral damage scattered throughout the Dalelands. The PCs are at the center of a very broad radius of destruction. Once the PCs start to understand just how big this attack was, then hit them with the fact that Elminster was seen taking the field at the beginning, but has been missing ever since.

This way, the opening of the campaign focuses on the actions of the Player Characters, though the underlying metaplot centers around the fate of Elminster. Let the players learn about the details through their characters' eyes.
 


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