loseth
First Post
apoptosis said:There are definitely times where they can be exclusive.
I agree (as I stated in my two earlier posts).
apoptosis said:Simulationism many times is exclusive of either gamism or narrativism.
Again, I agree. I just think that the number of actual instances of mutual exclusivity is much lower than the perceived number of instances, and also that degree of mutual exclusivity is also often perceived as being higher than it really is (this is especially evident in the inappropriate use of the naval 'ship design triangle' to conceptualise GNS).
apoptosis said:XP is not simulationism in most peoples ideas of a fantasy world. You would get better at skills that you practiced though the system is such that you can get better at skills you didnt practive based on you having more XP.
This is another good example of a perceived mismatch that isn't really three. To accurately simulate the great effect that experience has on one's profession performance, it is often difficult to individually quantify all the factors that improve one's performance. In fact, many of these factors are quite amorphous or not fully understood even by experts and are thus inherently resistant to quantification in the first place. You'll often get a more accurate simulation of a person’s professional abilities by just focussing on a few important (and easily measurable) factors and assigning a level to account for the performance in general.
D&D does this, with the profession in question being 'adventurer.' Now, in D&D terms, being an adventurer mostly means being someone who excels at exploring the places where enemies are present, interacting with people to find such enemies and then killing the enemies in combat. So, the most logical way of simulating the way experience causes an increase in one's overall ability as a D&D-style adventurer? Use a system based on combat experience (since being a D&D adventurer is mostly about combat), with some room for including relevant non-combat elements (like achieving important adventuring goals) in the mix. In other words, use the D&D XP/level system.
Could more be done to marry-up the excellent simulationist and gamist potential of the level/XP system? Definitely. One option that I have used many times myself, for example, is to reduce the skill list to only the most important adventuring skills, so that it's logical that all adventurers should get better at them (thanks to the SWSE half-level bonus) as they become more experienced adventurers. The rest of one’s ‘skills/abilities’ can then be handled by a much simpler system that won’t interfere with the main (combat-oriented) game mechanics, but still provides the verisimilitude of fully-fleshed-out characters. I'm sure there are many other things that could also be done to make the XP/level system more consistent and fit better with most people's sense of verisimilitude, but the fact that more needs to be done doesn't change the excellent potential that's there.
However, if a designer adopts the mistaken attitude that 'XP is a gamist concept, dammit, so trying to make it work in terms of immersion and setting/story consistency must be badwrongdesign,' then he or she will needlessly end up with a design that is suboptimal.
apoptosis said:This doesnt mean that you cant ad hoc all sorts of explanations to make your ideas seem consistent or part of the physics of the world, but that is irrelevant to the original intent of the design decision.
Adopting a policy of making the game numbers work as the first priority and then modifying game elements, on an ad-hoc basis, to be more successful at simluation whenever the need arises is a clear design intent and, IMHO, one that is likely to produce a good game.